Dave
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Post by Dave on Jul 19, 2010 16:16:54 GMT
Hi everyone,
Just a word to remind us what's left of the Battle of Britain Tour, after the two completed concerts and the several cancellations.
As of today, we have to come (including the "unofficial" BoB concert at Faenol):
Jul 28 Wed - Croydon Fairfield Halls (Battle of Britain 70th Anniversary)
Aug 02 Mon - Nottingham Royal Concert Hall (Battle of Britain 70th Anniversary)
Aug 28 Sat - Bangor (Vaynol) Faenol Festival BoB concert
Whilst these are all confirmed, that does not of course mean they are guaranteed to happen. And as Bryn Terfel has said in a statement, further changes might have to be made to the Faenol Festival as a whole if the current low ticket sales persist. It seems that 'the times they are a-changin' and not only for Hayley.
Dave
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Post by larryhauck on Jul 19, 2010 20:48:38 GMT
Hi everyone, Just a word to remind us what's left of the Battle of Britain Tour, after the two completed concerts and the several cancellations. As of today, we have to come (including the "unofficial" BoB concert at Faenol): Jul 28 Wed - Croydon Fairfield Halls (Battle of Britain 70th Anniversary) Aug 02 Mon - Nottingham Royal Concert Hall (Battle of Britain 70th Anniversary) Aug 28 Sat - Bangor (Vaynol) Faenol Festival BoB concert Whilst these are all confirmed, that does not of course mean they are guaranteed to happen. And as Bryn Terfel has said in a statement, further changes might have to be made to the Faenol Festival as a whole if the current low ticket sales persist. It seems that 'the times they are a-changin' and not only for Hayley. Dave HI Dave Since the BOB concerts are dropping off the schedule like flies don't you think a person would have to be a bit foolish to schedule one of these remaining concerts. I suppose you've heard of the domino effect. I think it's possible that may have been the cause of the 11Th hour cancellations of Cardiff. My other theory is the lack of promotion in the U K. I still love Hayley very much ; but I think that her silence and the silence of her managers as to why the cancellations happened is not the best public relations move. As a marketing man I think I would have played my hand a bit differently. I'm not so sure that this may not have an adverse effect on Hayley's career. Had I been her or her managers I would have come clean much earlier as to the tenuous state of the events so as for ticket holders to make an informed decision. Disappointed Larry |
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Post by martindn on Jul 19, 2010 21:29:47 GMT
Hi Larry,
As I already said, I share your pain. And I agree, they should come clean. My guess is a combination of poor ticket sales and the need to find dates to record the album. Poor ticket sales for Hayley is something new, so I don't know which scares me the most, Hayley's apparent waning popularity in the UK or the way her career seems to be being mismanaged. She deserves better than that.
Kicking devoted fans like you is not the way to go. Some serious questions need to be asked.
Martin D
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Post by thomas on Jul 19, 2010 22:01:59 GMT
Like Martin I share the pain of all who have booked for these cancelled concerts. The expensive things are the circumstances you need to attend a concert, like flights, hotels, etc. A refunded ticket is just a drop in the ocean.
I've always had the feeling that she might be a little misplaced in the BoB concert tour. But that's my own opinion only.
A while ago I thought of going to Cardiff but I didn't book because I go to another concert here in Germany the evening before Cardiff. First I was a little annoyed that I've already got the ticket for that other concert, now I'm happy because it saved me from a big mistake.
I'm mostly sad because of Hayley. All these cancellations are bad for her reputation although they aren't her fault. Hayley might even be the last to know about a cancellation.
I hope concerts become more predictable once her album is released and she'll be doing her own tour again.
Thomas
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jul 19, 2010 22:55:15 GMT
My guess is a combination of poor ticket sales and the need to find dates to record the album. Poor ticket sales for Hayley is something new, so I don't know which scares me the most, Hayley's apparent waning popularity in the UK or the way her career seems to be being mismanaged. Hi Martin D, and also Larry and all, Hayley has been able to fill venues of around 700 up to to perhaps 1,000 in some places for a few years now, and I don't think that has changed much, in fact several of her most recent UK tours have been based around those kind of numbers (sometimes even fewer). I have to admit that I was surprised when I learned about several of the venues being booked for the BoB tour, most of them are well above that optimum size and I assumed that something special was planned in connection with the Battle of Britain celebrations, which would have attracted more interest than usual. However, so far there hasn't really been much media interest in the BoB, perhaps because it didn't even start until early July 1940. And Battle of Britain Day is in September! So yes it does look like there has been an element of bad planning, the tour may simply have been too early in the year and the venues chosen too large. But we have no way of knowing at the moment if the delayed album recording dates prompted concert cancellations, or if it was the other way round. Either way, I hope we can find out more about the reasons for this in due course, if only so that those worst affected such as Larry and others travelling from overseas will have a better understanding of what happened and why. I am sure that when next year's tours are being planned, Bedlam will learn from this and go back to smaller venues - in a year of course when touring will be the priority unlike this year when the album seems to have absolute priority. And one thing we have all been reminded of is that "confirmed" most definitely does not mean "guaranteed to take place", or anything like it.  Dave |
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Post by roger on Jul 19, 2010 23:11:17 GMT
I have to admit that I was surprised when I learned about several of the venues being booked for the BoB tour, most of them are well above that optimum size... Indeed so, Dave. My surprise was that Eastbopurne and Portsmouth were both on the original schedule. They are only 72 miles apart. I don't know the sizes of the venues but, if they are large as you suggest, they were never going to sell sufficient tickets to fill both.  And Croydon is only 54 miles from Eastbourne and 72 miles from Portsmouth. Anyone living within that triangle would chose only ONE of them. Roger |
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Post by martindn on Jul 19, 2010 23:25:06 GMT
Hi Dave,
Are you sure smaller venues are the answer? I'm not. Look what happened in Taiwan just exactly a year ago. She blew 40,000 people out of their seats at the world games. The next show she did there overfilled the National Theatre to such an extent that there were big screen relays in the square outside.
Was this really only last year? Has Hayley really got that much worse since? I don't believe it, all reports show she is better than ever.
The problem is not Hayley's talent, it is solely down to mismanagement. Bedlam, Decca, they should be deeply ashamed. They have messed up the career of the finest singer of their generation. That takes real talent! Even EMI, with Gloria, will probably do a better job for Hayley than her own record company. What is going on?
A singer like Hayley should be everywhere. All over the media. Constantly on TV. We should be celebrating a fabulous talent. She really is that good. The reason that inferior artists are better known than Hayley is entirely down to the failures of those who are managing her career.
There are no excuses. They have messed up. Full stop. If Hayley dumped the lot of them, or cleared off to live happily ever after with her boyfriend, I wouldn't blame her. But we, who love to hear her sing, would be the losers.
Martin D
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jul 20, 2010 0:36:36 GMT
Hi Martin D and all, The World Games and the follow-up concert were one-offs with massive "free" National publicity in Taiwan and cannot really be compared with Hayley's bread-and-butter UK concert tours. Just to add to my previous post, the Eastbourne capacity is about 1,700, Portsmouth over 1,900 and Cardiff 2,000. Unless something special is happening to help promote them, these venues will always struggle to be more than half full for a Hayley concert, and BoB anniversary so far hasn't been anything like "special" in the media. Croydon (another big one, 1,800) seems to be about half full to date and hopefully there will be enough tickets sold for it to go ahead - it's only next week!  And let's not overdo the Bedlam-bashing, they have made mistakes this time round for sure but that apart, we cannot assume that they (or even Decca) are responsible for all the ills that you mentioned in your last post, Martin D.  Dave |
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Post by larryhauck on Jul 20, 2010 1:00:07 GMT
Hi Dave, Are you sure smaller venues are the answer? I'm not. Look what happened in Taiwan just exactly a year ago. She blew 40,000 people out of their seats at the world games. The next show she did there overfilled the National Theatre to such an extent that there were big screen relays in the square outside. Was this really only last year? Has Hayley really got that much worse since? I don't believe it, all reports show she is better than ever. The problem is not Hayley's talent, it is solely down to mismanagement. Bedlam, Decca, they should be deeply ashamed. They have messed up the career of the finest singer of their generation. That takes real talent! Even EMI, with Gloria, will probably do a better job for Hayley than her own record company. What is going on? A singer like Hayley should be everywhere. All over the media. Constantly on TV. We should be celebrating a fabulous talent. She really is that good. The reason that inferior artists are better known than Hayley is entirely down to the failures of those who are managing her career. There are no excuses. They have messed up. Full stop. If Hayley dumped the lot of them, or cleared off to live happily ever after with her boyfriend, I wouldn't blame her. But we, who love to hear her sing, would be the losers. Martin D Hi Martin You hit the nail right on the head. Hayley's situation reminds me of the stars in the U S that have wound up broke because they trusted incompetent people to manage their investments. Actually I've made the same comments since I joined the forum. I think that early on Hayley felt an obligation to stay with Bedlam and Decca. Well I subscribe to the theory that no one looks out for you better than you. I first saw Hayley in 2007 on PBS with the Celtic Woman. When Hayley sang I immediately knew that she was special. I honestly think that had she stayed with the CW group she would have been better off. I know there was a problem with her association with CW; but I don't know what it was. My assumption is that the CW group tours the U S every year and sometimes twice a year. The exposure she would have had with that many appearances would probably have been beneficial. Many groups here have produced one star from the group. Many standout vocalists have made it big in the U S. Excellent talent is like cream.....it always comes to the top. As I see it Hayley's career has been tragically mismanaged. I'm sure I could be wrong but I think not. Of course that's just my opinion ; however I've seen many singers a lot less talented than Hayley become super stars. Celine Dion, Dianna Ross, and a host of country music singers. Opportunity knocks infrequently. You have to grab it when it knocks. Larry Larry |
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Post by larryhauck on Jul 20, 2010 1:12:54 GMT
Hi Martin D and all, The World Games and the follow-up concert were one-offs with massive "free" National publicity in Taiwan and cannot really be compared with Hayley's bread-and-butter UK concert tours. Just to add to my previous post, the Eastbourne capacity is about 1,700, Portsmouth over 1,900 and Cardiff 2,000. Unless something special is happening to help promote them, these venues will always struggle to be more than half full for a Hayley concert, and BoB anniversary so far hasn't been anything like "special" in the media. Croydon (another big one, 1,800) seems to be about half full to date and hopefully there will be enough tickets sold for it to go ahead - it's only next week! And let's not overdo the Bedlam-bashing, they have made mistakes this time round for sure but that apart, we cannot assume that they (or even Decca) are responsible for all the ills that you mentioned in your last post, Martin D. Dave C'mon Dave you're smarter than that. Don't be an apologist for an obvious mismanaged career. Larry |
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Post by larryhauck on Jul 20, 2010 1:44:20 GMT
My guess is a combination of poor ticket sales and the need to find dates to record the album. Poor ticket sales for Hayley is something new, so I don't know which scares me the most, Hayley's apparent waning popularity in the UK or the way her career seems to be being mismanaged. Hi Martin D, and also Larry and all, Hayley has been able to fill venues of around 700 up to to perhaps 1,000 in some places for a few years now, and I don't think that has changed much, in fact several of her most recent UK tours have been based around those kind of numbers (sometimes even fewer). I have to admit that I was surprised when I learned about several of the venues being booked for the BoB tour, most of them are well above that optimum size and I assumed that something special was planned in connection with the Battle of Britain celebrations, which would have attracted more interest than usual. However, so far there hasn't really been much media interest in the BoB, perhaps because it didn't even start until early July 1940. And Battle of Britain Day is in September! So yes it does look like there has been an element of bad planning, the tour may simply have been too early in the year and the venues chosen too large. But we have no way of knowing at the moment if the delayed album recording dates prompted concert cancellations, or if it was the other way round. Either way, I hope we can find out more about the reasons for this in due course, if only so that those worst affected such as Larry and others travelling from overseas will have a better understanding of what happened and why. I am sure that when next year's tours are being planned, Bedlam will learn from this and go back to smaller venues - in a year of course when touring will be the priority unlike this year when the album seems to have absolute priority. And one thing we have all been reminded of is that "confirmed" most definitely does not mean "guaranteed to take place", or anything like it. Dave Thanks Dave Not your fault but I won't be back next year. The thought of a singer with Hayley's talent not being to fill a 2000 seat venue is unheard of. With the help of Public Broadcasting Corporation the Celtic Woman group sell out a 3000 seat venue for two shows. That WW2 nostalgia concert would sell out in a week in the U S. Larry |
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Post by Dave on Jul 20, 2010 2:14:56 GMT
C'mon Dave you're smarter than that. Don't be an apologist for an obvious mismanaged career. Larry Hi Larry (and Martin D), Sadly, it goes far deeper than management (though I'm not defending them over the BoB tour) or even record company (whom I have also criticized). One look at the UK top 100 music charts www.theofficialcharts.com/singles-chart/ www.theofficialcharts.com/albums-chart/ demonstrates what the media, and apparently the bulk of the general public, are interested in. But let us await the results of the Morricone album release before passing judgement, what happens there will tell us a great deal. Oh yes. Dave |
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Post by larryhauck on Jul 20, 2010 3:40:07 GMT
C'mon Dave you're smarter than that. Don't be an apologist for an obvious mismanaged career. Larry Hi Larry (and Martin D), Sadly, it goes far deeper than management (though I'm not defending them over the BoB tour) or even record company (whom I have also criticized). One look at the UK top 100 music charts www.theofficialcharts.com/singles-chart/ www.theofficialcharts.com/albums-chart/ demonstrates what the media, and apparently the bulk of the general public, are interested in. But let us await the results of the Morricone album release before passing judgement, what happens there will tell us a great deal. Oh yes. Dave Hi Dave I understand your point. The charts in the U S look the same. However there are enough people with more sophisticated tastes that will appreciate good music.St Louis is in the process of renovating a 3000 seat opera house to create an alternative venue for artists that can't fill the larger houses. I remember seeing Andre Watts there many years ago when he was just 21 years old. The young crowd buy many records and the older crowd with an appreciation of talented artists patronize the smaller venues. My point is of course is that vocalists like Hayley will never make the pop charts without a radical change of style, which would be a pity. Larry |
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Post by gordon on Jul 20, 2010 9:17:57 GMT
Hi All,
Like everyone else I am very unhappy with the situation and have sympathy with those especially from overseas who stand to lose a great deal of money over the cancellations.
It will be interesting to see if Bedlam come up with a plausable explanation in the near future.
Gordon
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Post by Jeff on Jul 20, 2010 10:23:50 GMT
Could it be that an evening of wartime songs, poetry and speeches may not be everyone's cup of tea, including mine ? Of course it's a good cause but there are so many good causes around these days . I'll be at Russell Watson's charity gig next week but my pockets are only so deep which means I have to choose my concerts carefully now especially if travel is involved and only see shows that really appeal to me. I can understand that people who grew up or took part in WW2 would welcome such an event but personally I prefer Hayley when she performs crossover repertoire. Anyway, we'll see what comes of her collaboration with Morricone.
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