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Post by comet on Mar 13, 2009 12:53:44 GMT
This discussion started with Libby's post
Re: River of Dreams UK Tour - GENERAL THREAD
« Result #32 Today at 6:20am »
I started buying records before I was a teenager and thats a while ago.
I would not buy "Live" albums as I wanted the technical superiority of the studio album, or so I thought at the time. By the time I was in my twenties I realised I had ignored some of the best performances that were available. By the time I realised this a lot of these great albums were no longer available.
I have come to love many live albums since like Sunday Concert by Gordon Lightfoot and Hot August Night by Neil Diamond to name a couple. The sense of action and reaction on these albums is palpable, the giving and taking between the audience and the performers shapes each song, everything is there warts and all. But the beauty of the interaction between performer and audience is there too and thats what makes these live recordings so special.
Some of my favourite pieces to watch and listen to at the moment are the recordings and videos made by Hayley's fans. Recordings that captured that wonderful interaction between Hayley and her fans directly in front of her.. Very special..
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Post by scoobedoo on Mar 13, 2009 20:31:41 GMT
Hi Paul, that what you say is exactly what I was referring to in Steve's thread “ What is best backing for Hayley”
There is no doubt about it Live concerts beat studio recordings hands down in my books,
cheers,
Rodders.
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Post by stevemacdonald on Mar 13, 2009 23:23:56 GMT
...There is no doubt about it Live concerts beat studio recordings hands down in my books... I know this much to be true: Hayley is more enjoyable in live concert than on her recordings, even if the live backing music falls short. Maybe it's the immediate "wow" factor of being in her presence that sets it apart. On her studio albums I can hear things in her voice that sound manipulated, whereas there are no such filters live. She also seems to have more command of her voice live, rather than working off the suggestions of the producer. This may be a stretch for some, but I really think you haven't lived until you've been to a Hayley concert. the next best thing is probably a recording of the live concert. |
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Post by postscript on Mar 14, 2009 9:06:03 GMT
Lovely comment comet. That is also why so many artists do what they do. Have you ever done any performance work yourself, even as an amateur? I did a lot of amateur theatre in my younger days and although only acting characters in plays it is amazing how different audiences can be. Of course it depends on the scenario--serious or comic--as to what you feel from an audience but to be someone like Hayley, to be able to be yourself and just walk on a stage and feel the warmth of an audience tiered in front of you hanging upon every word, every moment of your being is a very exciting and uplifting experience.
Peter S.
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Post by martindn on Mar 14, 2009 19:03:32 GMT
Hi Guys,
Yes, in the past I have generally preferred studio recordings too, but I think it depends on the artist. In Hayleys case I have made several CDs for my own use based on recordings of her live performances, and I love them. The onlt commercial live recordings of Hayley that I know about are those from last year's iTunes festival, and i have those burned onto a CD too.
But back in the sixties, a lot of pop and rock bands played very loudly at concerts, so loudly that you couldn't actually hear what they were playing. Which was probably just as well, because the standard of performance was often much worse than on the studio recording. Live recordings of shows like that were often appalling.
Not every artist can walk onto a stage and command it like Hayley. In her case, her presence makes a huge difference. It is not so with all artists though.
Martin
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Post by nicola on Mar 16, 2009 18:50:57 GMT
I can't stand live recordings. It is so rare for me to prefer a live version of a song. This is not to be confused with if I prefer live performance to studio recording, because I'd choose live everytime, but for them to be recorded? No. So many distractions, not all of the acoustics come down right, it sometimes difficult to hear the vocals, and so on. Much prefer my studio recordings.
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Post by martindn on Mar 16, 2009 23:28:19 GMT
Hi Nicola,
The trouble is, if you limit yourself to studio recordings of Hayley that are available in the UK, the last full album is 2 years old, you won't know what her voice sounds like now - you have said yourself that it has changed a lot. Since Treasure all we have had is a few guest appearances on other people's albums and the live iTunes recordings. We badly need a new international album from Hayley.
Martin
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Post by nicola on Mar 17, 2009 11:00:38 GMT
But there are not live albums released by Hayley, so that's a bit of a moot point. It's not really of any importance to me to hear her every six months. I'm quite happy with hearing her progress between two years. Besides, I have her Japanese albums.  I don't limit myself by any means, if I like the artist enough, I buy their live recording, but that doesn't mean I'd opt to listen to it over their studio albums. I think the truth of the matter is, many artists cannot perform well without the gadgets of the studio. I thought I had bought a wailing cat when I bought a live album by Evanescence (turns out Amy Lee can't sing). Hayley, of course, is more than sufficient live! She sounds better, even. But the whole point of a live show is to be there at the time, and as much as the CD tries to imitate that experience with live recordings, it doesn't succeed for me. |
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Martin
Global Moderator
HWI Management Team
Posts: 3,339
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Post by Martin on Mar 17, 2009 13:06:24 GMT
But there are not live albums released by Hayley, so that's a bit of a moot point. Hi Nicola Whilst your comment is accurate let's not forget the live NZ DVD. The quality and atmoshere on this recording is just perfect. Martin |
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Post by nicola on Mar 17, 2009 15:23:50 GMT
DVD is not the same as a CD. DVD has visuals, but even so, I feel the same way about DVD live shows. I absolutely adored seeing Sarah Brightman's Harem concert, but really don't like the DVD of the show! XD
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Post by postscript on Mar 17, 2009 17:40:02 GMT
Hi everyone.
This seems as good a thread as any to make my comment regarding my experience behind the BBC sound mixer at the Friday Night is Music Night recording with Faryl, although is it perhaps one-sided in its coverage.
Very simply, what came out of my observations and the questions I asked is this.
For FNIMN the BBC run through the whole show in full for a sound check. They don't just concentrate on highs and lows. Even then adjustments are required as the sound check and the performance are not identically reproduced by the performers.
For a lot of the straight orchestral stuff the controls were not touched at all but when Faryl was singing he was playing minutely with the input and confirmed, as I had suspected from previously studying the layout of the mixing desk that he was actually tweaking specific frequencies. This, despite her having her own microphone was to ensure her voice came above the orchestra's.
Apparently the BBC 'threw out' reel-to-reel as 'early' as a 'few years ago'. It is now all solid state. Judging from the shape of his hands when he illustrated the memory chip size (5 inches x 4 inches or 6 x 5) they must cost a fortune. as earlier that day I spent £80 for 0.5 x 0.5 chip which will only hold 1 hour of high definition video (8Gb).
Had this been a studio recording I suspect they would have stopped and re-taken? Running live they can only tweak as circumstances determine at the time. What was interesting is that his output frequently went into red lights for the master monitors. For anyone used to something like an Ampex or Ferrograph reel-to-reel deck this would equate to just passing the red line on the VU meter. There is a leeway factor before you over-record.
I found it interesting that the cables from the mixer output to the recording heads were very small in diameter and could not possibly have had more than a single braided screening. However, his output cables disappeared up to the balcony and from the balcony there were much larger cables emerging to the outside broadcast van.
This is a vast articulated truck with a surprising amount of room in it. It was almost like a mobile sitting-room. Maybe there is extra space from having gone solid state. It would seem that the mixer in the theatre is working both visually and audibly on the final mix to make his adjustments, whilst the recording is being monitored in the van for broadcast quality and conformity to the script. It would have been here that wifi communication would have taken place between the mixer and the presenter which is how the retakes were managed. It would also be from the van that the final decision would be made that everyone could disperse, 'I've just been told we have a clear', said the commentator and we all started going home.
Peter S.
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Post by comet on Mar 17, 2009 20:17:27 GMT
Thanks Peter, Very interesting commentary, with useful technical descriptions, I still have not made the jump from using rotary or slider controls to using a mouse which is most frustrating  The analogue controls allow more smoothness and can be adjusted quickly or slowly as required. Less shielding is required on shorter cables, or cables that carry a higher signal strength, the old standard between mixers and such devices was a peculiar 775 millivolts. more modern digital equipment seems to have the higher 2,000 mv which needs far less screening and protection. I'm fairly sure mobile phones and the like in very close proximity could cause problems with interference. We used to use a brand of hi power amplifier that was particularly susceptible to interference from the radios used by the Ambulance service, If they were within a 100 meters or so they came through loud and clear (Which was of course not the desired result)  Not so funny half way through the wedding speech  There is a good chance your 8gb card has more storage than his 5X6" device. sounds like his one might have been a hard disc device. |
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Post by comet on Apr 20, 2011 9:32:31 GMT
Greetings Everyone, You are really making me anxious for my copy to arrive. I have purposely not sought out any audio clips since I want my first 'listen' to come via my vacuum tube stereo system. I checked it out last night to make sure that all components were functioning properly. Now I just have to get that CD in my grubby little hands . . . . .  BillR Hi Bill, tried to find a suitable thread for this. I have seen you refer to valve amplifiers on several ocassions. I can understand musicians using them for guitars and keyboards. But I'm not sure why you would have one for a Hi-Fi or home stereo. I always found that valve amplifiers produced a hum (50 or 60 hz depending on where you are) and other strange hissings and buzzings and sizzeling noises. To be honest I was quite glad to see the back of valve amps and replace them with the more reliable mosfet amps with almost zero distortion and wonderful signal to noise ratios. But I also understand your affection for them as collectors items. I also get your name "antique amplifiers" which implies a certain love for them. |
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Post by amptique on Apr 21, 2011 0:16:14 GMT
Hi Comet. I'll admit that the first half-hour or so, after first turning the system on, you can get some odd noises and the entire system requires some patience to maintain and keep in the best operating condition. You occasionally have open the case and rock the tubes around to clear out any dust that might degrade the connections. That activity satisfies my desire for some level of danger - sticking your hand into the chassis to rock tubes powered by several hundred volts of electricity is somehow enjoyable to me.  Once the system is working properly, at least to my ear, there is an openness and clarity of the sound that I have yet to hear produced by any solid state system. Maybe I just haven't heard a good one yet. To me the most noticeable difference is during musical passages that occur during very quiet periods - the extra ring of the symbol or vibration of a string, or the very fine vibrato of Hayley's voice as it fades to silence. And don't forget - there is always the danger factor. BillR |
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