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Post by stevemacdonald on Feb 27, 2009 0:11:54 GMT
Fair enough if that were the case, but you were not coming across that way. "Bland doesn't apply in these cases" and "In no way can Hayley's music be described as bland" seemed quite definitive to me. I beg your pardon if I misunderstood. ... I take ownership of the first statement -- "Bland doesn't apply in these cases," -- which happens to be 100% true if you know the definition of bland. Since when is the explosion in Benedictus bland or the quirky melody of Wuthering Heights bland? I stick by that as an opinion that convincingly coincides with fact all the way. The other statement -- "In no way can Hayley's music be described as bland," wasn't mine and I respectfully disagree with Martin on it since I can think of several Hayley tunes that are exceedingly bland. |
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Post by nicola on Feb 27, 2009 0:29:41 GMT
Wow. I think if someone compared Hayley's WH to Kate's they may well have a good case for Hayley's version being bland (though I have no problems with Hayley's version, but I do prefer Kate's more colourful rendition). Same goes for KJ's original arrangement of 'Benedictus' (which I actually prefer to Hayley's rendition, but I'm partial to choirs). Again, matter of opinion.
You know something is not a fact when you can honestly tell yourself that it's possible for someone else to disagree with a statement (I speak in general). When you are in such a subjective area as musical taste, it's rather problematic to claim anything as fact.
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Post by stevemacdonald on Feb 27, 2009 1:53:03 GMT
Wow. I think if someone compared Hayley's WH to Kate's they may well have a good case for Hayley's version being bland (though I have no problems with Hayley's version, but I do prefer Kate's more colourful rendition). Same goes for KJ's original arrangement of 'Benedictus' (which I actually prefer to Hayley's rendition, but I'm partial to choirs). Again, matter of opinion. You know something is not a fact when you can honestly tell yourself that it's possible for someone else to disagree with a statement (I speak in general). When you are in such a subjective area as musical taste, it's rather problematic to claim anything as fact. I'm afraid we're splitting hairs here, but if you insist. Of course someone may find Hayley's WH relatively bland in direct comparison to Kate Bush's original, but that doesn't mean it's actually bland because it contains numerous elements that distinctly put it in the category of non-bland, such as its sparkling quirkiness and its soaring melody. Hayley delivered a bravura performance of this song on the American version of Pure (which differs from the more-familiar UK version). I'm told it's also her show-stopper in live concert. |
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Post by martindn on Feb 28, 2009 0:03:42 GMT
Hi Steve,
Show stopper it cetainly is, and she is performing it again on the ROD tour. Her performance of it at Northampton last year was the best I have ever seen, the highlight of the show. I say this despite the fact that Hayley was ill at the time, and I have never liked Kate Bush's version, one of the few Kate Bush songs I don't like. Hayley made me love it. Kate did not. Kate's version just seems naff and contrived. Hayley's is passionate and intense. Neither is bland in my opinion.
Martin
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Post by joanne on Apr 27, 2010 9:45:05 GMT
You cannot understand how it can ever get better, but somehow it does. That is what is so exciting about Hayley. She is setting new standards all the time. I cannot therefore say, as I have never been able to, that she is perfect and cannot improve. I have thought that for years, yet improve she does. Who knows where it will end, but I hope it isn't soon. Martin I agree with Martin! Take the song Wuthering Heights, for example. I heard her live at a concert on Youtube before I got my Pure cd. The Youtube one was in 2004. Already the song sounded rather different. Both versions were technically perfect (as far as I could tell) but I enjoyed the 2004 concert one way more. I commented on that on Youtube and someone suggested it could've just been the orchestra behind her in the concert, but I'm not convinced, I still think her voice was slightly different (and better, IMHO) perhaps because she'd grown since the making of Pure, both as a singer and a person. I don't think she'll ever stop getting better (: Like Martin said, it's exciting to see how much further she gets each time we hear her! There I go, resurrecting old threads again. Haha. cheers, joanne |
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Post by mihizawi on Apr 27, 2010 13:20:47 GMT
About that awesomeness of Wuthering Heights, there are three recordings I like way more than the one in Pure. One is the recording from the famous promo videoclip, the other is the one with Jon Lord and finally, there's a truly great recent recording from St Alban's Arena.
And, yes, I am sure we all who follow Hayley wonder how she can get always better and better.... Lately, she has reached a level so much beyond perfectness... And I think that shows that the thing that makes you such a huge artist is not the talent, but the hard work.
Michal
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Post by martindn on Apr 27, 2010 19:20:07 GMT
Yes as someone (probably Thomas Edison) once said
"Genius is one percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration"
Martin D
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Post by romancoronado on Sept 27, 2010 2:05:31 GMT
I've never had the pleasure of seeing Hayley live. I've seen youtube videos of a live performance but that still doesn't count. There's a certain essence that is always lost when something is recorded compared to a live performance. I can only base my view off of her albums, more specifically the albums I have, which for the most part is the majority of them though there are a few that I don't have. One thing that is most notable of Hayley is that her voice has matured over each album that she has recorded. So for me I can only imagine that, like a fine wine, she is getting better with age.
The idea of perfection - much like we've already stated about emotion drawn being that of opinion, so is perfection. It's very easy for all of us on the outside to see Hayley as perfect (and I do fall into that category). But just because we see Hayley as perfect doesn't mean that she sees herself that way. For those of you who have seen her live, what to you was a perfect concert may in fact have been a less than perfect concert in Hayley's own eyes. Example, I've been a musician since I was a child. Every performance I ever put on, be it a small gathering in someone's home or an actual recital, at the end people would come up to me a tell me how perfect my playing was or how perfect the entire performance was. I can tell you with certainty that I have never felt that I have ever put on a perfect performance. I've always found several things that I didn't like about my performance or things that needed to be fixed. I've been trained to look for those things. To break it down even further, I can count on one hand and not even use all of my fingers the number of times that I felt I played a single piece perfectly - by the by, this is sort of a classical musician thing and this is for those who don't know, but when I say "piece", to all of you that should be interpreted as "song". The majority of classical musicians don't call classical compositions "songs". They are called "pieces". And a "song" with multiple movements...or songs within songs...are called "works". Just thought I'd throw that out there in case anyone was wondering "why is he saying "pieces" or "what does he mean by a piece". I honestly think that if the question was ever present to Hayley that she would indeed say "I'm not perfect". Who would know better than her? After all she is the one performing.
To stevemacdonald,
You said "The other statement --"In no way can Hayley's music be described as bland", wasn't mine and I respectfully disagree with Martin on it since I can think of several Hayley tunes that are exceedingly bland". Out of curiosity, what was it about those pieces...sorry, classical habit...songs that you found bland? Was it the lyrics? Or the melody? Or the accompaniment? Or all of it together as a whole? Before knowing your answer I think I can see your point. If someone was to ask me what my least favorite Hayley song is I could say hands down that it's Summer Fly. That song is just strange to me. Has nothing to do with the lyrics or the musical arrangement. I was born and raised in Texas. In Texas country western music, or simply country, is and always has been big. When I hear that song my mind automatically goes "country" and when I think country and Hayley....the 2 don't mix. I've tried listening to that song as many times as I can but to this day it's the one song that when my ipod gets to it I click next before it can start. There are a couple of songs from Pure that I don't mind but I didn't really get on board with them.
As to the emotion - again I've never seen her live. Most of her songs I've only heard the recorded versions. So when I hear that she may lack emotion my mind goes to the recordings and I say...well, she was a teenager when she recorded her first 2 international albums. How much life experience do most teenagers have at that point? I remember watching "Both Sides Now" on youtube and the number of people who disliked it because she lacked the emotion that Joni Mitchell put into it. Well, Hayley was still a teenager when she recorded that so I see it as unfair to compare an 18 year olds version to Joni who was around 26 when she recorded it and who also matured (emotionally) as she aged with that piece....ugh...song. Pure wasn't an album that contained songs that made me emotional in the sense of crying. What it made me feel was complete awe of Hayley. I was blown away. It wasn't until I heard Quanta Qualia that I first started crying. Prayer made me cry as well but I often wondered if it was because I heard it the same day and after I had listened to Quanta Qualia. One song that really hit me hard was her interpretation (recording) of Veni Veni Emmanuel, more specifically the 3rd verse. She made that entire song sound mournful and that song isn't a mournful song. The musical arrangement of that song is VERY well done, almost genius. It continues to build to a climax (the 3rd verse and into the refrain/bridge) which really helps to bring out the emotion that Hayley is putting into it. I think the whole emotional aspect will change as she ages and revisits those songs.
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Post by Libby on Sept 27, 2010 5:56:12 GMT
Even if Hayley herself doesn't think her performances are exactly perfect, when people tell her how good it was afterward, I'm sure she appreciates it very much. As long as the audience is pleased, it shouldn't bother her too much. I'm sure she tries her best for everything to go just right, but she must be used to the problems that are sure to happen every so often. Like getting her heels or dress caught in the equipment.  |
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Post by comet on Sept 27, 2010 9:54:18 GMT
Interesting post Roman, My wife "caught me" skipping a version of Amazing Grace the other day, It gave us both a good laugh....  |
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Post by romancoronado on Sept 27, 2010 14:17:47 GMT
Even if Hayley herself doesn't think her performances are exactly perfect, when people tell her how good it was afterward, I'm sure she appreciates it very much. As long as the audience is pleased, it shouldn't bother her too much. I'm sure she tries her best for everything to go just right, but she must be used to the problems that are sure to happen every so often. Like getting her heels or dress caught in the equipment. Oh no doubt about that at all. I always appreciated it when someone told me I did a good job during a performance. Point being that anyone who puts on any kind of a performance, be it music, dancing, theatre, etc, is going to be their own worst critic. Pleasing the audience, which I'm positive she always does, helps to negate that feeling but it doesn't take away the thought that the show wasn't absolutely "perfect" in her own mind. Performers tend to hold themselves to very high standards. My fault was always having my standards higher than what I could obtain, which is partly why I never felt I had a perfect performance. Though Hayley will probably always be pleased with how she performed she will probably never feel that everything was perfect i.e. "I could have sung that one better", "I didn't breathe properly so that I could sustain that one note as long as I needed it to be", "my heel/dress could have not got caught on the equipment", etc. |
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Post by Libby on Sept 27, 2010 19:36:16 GMT
Have you watched Hayley's Live from New Zealand DVD? In the special features part, Hayley does mention that people always say how well she did, or whatever, but she always feels as though she could've done better. So, she does feel the way you do, apparently.
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Post by martindn on Sept 27, 2010 22:21:22 GMT
That reminds me of when we met Hayley after the Itunes concert in London, when she emerged from the stage door and ask us immediately what we had thought of her performance. She sounded as if she had thought it wasn't very good, and to be honest the acoustic in that place was terrible, but she seemed pleased when I told her that I thought it was great and I had enjoyed it.
I have also been present on one or two occasions where I noticed things had gone slightly awry, but she always recovers and in any case she is such a wonderful performer that I would never think worse of her for it anyway. You only get one shot at a live performance, and there can sometimes be misunderstandings with the backing musicians and things like that. And 99% of the time she is spot on, it doesn't happen very often.
Martin D
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Post by romancoronado on Sept 27, 2010 22:44:02 GMT
Have you watched Hayley's Live from New Zealand DVD? In the special features part, Hayley does mention that people always say how well she did, or whatever, but she always feels as though she could've done better. So, she does feel the way you do, apparently. I've only seen whatever clips of that show are on youtube. Haven't seen the actual dvd. That's one thing that isn't in my collection yet even though it's easily available. So much to buy...still waiting on that money tree to grow in my backyard. |
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