Treasure - UK Version

[roger]

There seems to be enough evidence to assume that Hayley's third international album is to be called...

[glow=black,8,2000][glow=green,8,2000][glow=yellow,8,2000]Treasure[/glow][/glow][/glow]

Release Date (UK): 26th February 2007
Label: Universal Classics & Jazz (UCJ)
Cat No: 4758522

The tracklisting, first located by Jon, comes from HMV.co.uk.

1. Let Me Lie
2. La Notte Del Silenzio
3. Shenandoah
4. Whispering Hope
5. Summer Rain
6. Danny Boy
7. One Fine Day
8. Santa Lucia
9. The Heart Worships
10. E Pari Ra
11. Sonny
12. Summer Fly
13. Melancholy Interlude
14. Bist Du Bei Mir
15. Abide With Me

We will treat this as a provisional tracklisting until we receive confirmation from Bedlam Management that it is correct.

Even for the songs about which there is little doubt, please do not post lyrics on this board until we can be sure we have the correct version. That will be determined once we have heard clips or have seen composer's details published. At that point, lyrics may be posted in a separate thread (to maintain an "easy-to-find" structure).

I will not repost the cover picture until we are certain which (of the two we have so far seen) is to appear on the UK version.

I have not received any details of other versions (release dates or tracklistings, etc) and so this thread is for the UK version. Further threads may be created whenever necessary.

And so the countdown has officially begun...

[glow=black,8,2000][glow=green,8,2000][glow=yellow,8,2000]45 days to go! [/glow][/glow][/glow]

Roger

[Dave]

Hi everyone,

Well we have a Treasure board at last... so it must be true! Probably! I'd like to start off this thread by following up Roger's posts in the original International Album thread about whether or not this will count as "classical" in the UK. Why? Because it may help us to identify exactly which song is which from the tracklist titles.

Hayley has said that her new CD will follow more or less the same musical styles as her previous International CDs and we have heard nothing different, so I think Treasure (UK version) is again likely to qualify for the classical charts.This means that, assuming that all tracks are of the same length, there must be 9 "classical" tracks on it and no more than 6 "pop" tracks (the 60% rule).

To count as classical, 'classical' instruments must be used (no pop drumming or synthesisers!), a track must be written by a 'recognised classical composer' (including contemporary classical composers like Karl Jenkins, recently even Paul McCartney!) OR they can be traditional/sacred songs with a classical arrangement and instrumentation.

So what's what?

1. Let Me Lie - Hayley's composition (thanks Anna!) "pop".
2. La Notte Del Silenzio - Possibly by Luigi Rossi - an Italian Baroque composer (classical)
3. Shenandoah - traditional (classical)
4. Whispering Hope - traditional/sacred (classical)
5. Summer Rain - Hayley's composition (thanks Anna!) pop)
6. Danny Boy - Traditional (classical)
7. One Fine Day - Puccini (Un Bel Di, Madame Butterfly) is my bet for UK (classical)
8. Santa Lucia - Itlalian Traditional is my bet (depends on arrangement, classical).
9. The Heart Worships (Holst? thanks Kimberly) (classical)
10. E Pari Ra - NZ Traditional - like Pokarekare Ana, Kiri's done it (classical)
11. Sonny - No idea (C/W, Ron Hynes?) (pop)
12. Summer Fly (looks like pop)
13. Melancholy Interlude - Hayley's composition? (pop)
14. Bist Du Bei Mir - (If You Are With Me) My guess - by Stolzel. (Bach Era, classical)
15. Abide With Me - I assume by Monk, trad. hymn (classical)

Well if I'm right that makes 5 pop and 10 classical - so it would qualify for the UK classical charts by the 60% rule (assuming that all tracks are of equal length). And there is a margin of error of one track (9 are needed).

Feel free to disagree! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif

Cheers, Dave

[kcuteus1]

I would not call Whispering Hope classical but that is because I do not think of theses kind of traditional/ songs to be classical I think they are best with a gosal arrangement. i have never called american traditional songs classical. I think the The Heart Worships is the Holst song

[Dori]

Well, it certainly looks like a more Classical album than a pop one, which i am very happy about. I hope it's more classical!!

[Richard]

Hello everybody!

I've heard 'Whispering Hope' sung as a duet by Daniel O'Donnell and Mary Duff, and it is a beautiful song that will suit Hayley's voice perfectly. i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif

That raises an interesting question. Is there a duet on 'Treasure', and if so, with whom?

Best Wishes,

Richard

[postscript]

dave said:

Hi everyone,

13. Melancholy Interlude - Hayley's composition? (pop)

Well if I'm right that makes 5 pop and 10 classical - so it would qualify for the UK classical charts by the 60% rule (assuming that all tracks are of equal length). And there is a margin of error of one track (9 are needed).

Feel free to disagree! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif

Cheers, Dave

I don't know that I want to 'disagree' with you, Dave. After all, you have so much more knowledge than I on these things but I would want to query your assumption of 'Melancholy Interlude' as pop, if it is Hayley'c ontribution. You explained your definition of 'classical determination' for a new piece and I would have thought that:

• dependent upon the 'orchestral' backing
  
• she's a crossover/classical singer with an established reputation
  
• for one and two above this could be described as 'classical'
  

For these reasons, perhaps that's why there are ten (may be eleven!) just to make sure.

Peter S.

[roger]

kcuteus1 said:

I would not call Whispering Hope classical but that is because I do not think of theses kind of traditional/ songs to be classical I think they are best with a gosal arrangement. i have never called american traditional songs classical.

Great to hear from you again, Kimberly. We have missed you.

I must say I am inclined to agree with you. To my mind, traditional basically means "folk" which is an entirely different genre to classical. But, if the powers that be decide such songs are classical, that can only help Hayley (at least in the UK market) so I am happy to go along with it!

Roger

[Dave]

Welcome back Kimberly!

I think you are right about "The Heart Worships", thanks., I'll edit my post!

The definition of "classical" for the UK charts is not as strict as in some other countries such as Germany, NZ and even the US for the classical (not crossover) chart. I'll copy the rules that are, I think, most relevant:

- The term classical is to be understood in the broad sense of the term, ie as representative of a wide genre of music, not just music originating in the academically recognised classical period from Haydn to Beethoven. "

- The eligibility for the Classical Artist Album Chart will be judged on the works included on the album, not on the artists involved in performance.

- The works on the album should generally be capable of live performance in a concert setting

- The works should be composed by recognised classical composers and/or in a publicly recognised classical idiom or form.

- Arrangements of classical works which are not true to the original version may not be eligible for the Chart

And they do seem to allow a lot of traditional songs (especially but not only sacred music) to qualify if they meet the above criteria - but if the same traditional song had been performed by, say, Mary Black or Eva Cassidy with guitar and in the style of country or modern folk music, I do not think they would qualify.

In cases of doubt, they refer to a committee, which makes the final decision. I'm basing my thoughts on a combination of the rules that I know and previous decisions (Simple Gifts by Bryn Terfel contains a lot of traditional songs and was/is eligible for the classical charts).

Oh, a couple of other things I just remembered:

Peter, however Hayley's composition is arranged, she has no track record of composing classical music - not even in the broadest sense - so the classical committee would have to make the final decision. Without formal training and with little experience in composing, I cannot imagine that Hayley is yet able to compose a song that would be accepted by the committee as "classical". I can't imagine that Hayley herself would want to compose anything other than a light pop/folksy song anyway, at this stage in her career, would she? It would be a wonderful thing if she did but I'm sticking with "pop" for that one

Richard, yes that's the one, Whispering Hope by Septimus Winner (Alice Hawthorne!) and I'm guessing that it will count as classical because it's a "sacred" song, I don't think Hayley's arrangement or instrumentation will pose any problems but obviously I don't know for sure.

Cheers, Dave

[kcuteus1]

I think the reason why I do not think of traditional as classical is because I put traditional as one thing and classical as another and I think Hayley is better at the traditional and mild classical stuff and light light pop with a nice backing.

Santa Lucia dose anyone know what one it is .

[roger]

Hi Kimberly,

We cannot be absolutely certain about any of the songs (unless there is no alternative) as we have seen nothing more than the basic tracklisting. I hope we may have more details soon which include the composers. That will give us a few more clues. Sorry I can't answer your question more than that.

Roger

[Dave]

Hi Kimberly and Roger,

We certainly can't be sure what all but a handful of these songs are but I think it's great fun trying to work it out!

I hope Santa Lucia is the most popular one - the Italian/Neopolitan traditional song I hinted at in my first post above, because it's a lovely tune. Many famous classical and classical crossover singers have recorded it, going right back to the days of Gigli and Mario Lanza. it's usually but not always sung by men and I think the right arrangement would suit Hayley's voice well.

Russell Watson and Pavarotti, all the usual suspects, have done it and here is a sample by someone who certainly never got in the classical charts and whose voice you might recognise! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif

But it could be some other song with the same title... and I'm not sure if it would count as classical or not.

Cheers, Dave

[postscript]

I do recognise the voice but I haven't heard it for a awhile and can't put the name to it!
Peter S

[postscript]

Thank you, Dave, for your informed riposte on classing Hayley's possible original contribution as pop against classical.

Peter S.

[Richard]

postscript said:

I do recognise the voice but I haven't heard it for a awhile and can't put the name to it!
Peter S

Hello Peter!

The name might come to you if you take a holiday in Heartbreak Hotel. Bring us a stick of Jailhouse Rock!

Richard

[postscript]

richnorri said:

postscript said:

I do recognise the voice but I haven't heard it for a awhile and can't put the name to it!
Peter S

Hello Peter!

The name might come to you if you take a holiday in Heartbreak Hotel. Bring us a stick of Jailhouse Rock!

Richard

Then it isn't whom I thought it was. As for Heartbreak Hotel, i assume it is a TV series, which tells you I have never watched it!

DON'T answer me now, I wouldn't want to spoil it for those stlll trying to guess and offer their attempts.
Peter S.