Hayley's trans-national fan base : NZ sacrifice?

[Stephany]

I was browsing the internet this morning and came across the University of Canterbury (NZ) website. They had a very interesting lecture back in 2005 about the way a culture circulates as part of the Western commodity market.

The main question asked to students was : "When artists like Hayley Westenra reach their trans-national fan base, do they sacrifice local specificity?" .

Hayley is immensely proud of her NZ roots and has always included Maori tracks...except in "Celtic Treasure" and that would maybe be the beginning of an answer. What do you guys think?

[milewalker]

I think it depends in part on the size and location of the native market. It would be much easier for an artist like Hayley to lose "specificity" with regard to NZ than say someone like Barbra Striesand with regard to the US.

[Stephany]

I second that, Milewalker.
But I don't think it would be necessary for Hayley to hide her kiwi specificity in order to become "global" and reach worldwide audience.

[mariannek]

Hi milewalker,
I say never ever would Hayley even imagine to want to lose her "specificity ". I for one can't imagine it myself.
Love, Marianne

[roger]

Hi Stephany,

This is certainly a very interesting topic. In answer to the question, no I don't think Hayley's specificity would ever be sacrificed (by accident or design), but it might be compromised in the short term. In the longer term, I think she could use her international fan base as a means of promoting her heritage, culture, music, etc. In fact, she is already doing so when the opportunity arises which suggests that no sacrifice has been made to her specificity.

Roger

[Stephany]

Hi Roger, Marianne, Milewalker and everyone,
Hayley's specificity is also linked to her Irish heritage and she's clearly promoting it with "Treasure" so although she may not include in all her albums Maori songs, she will probably do both in the near future.
This specificity is also what makes her unique so she should definitely continue this way.

[Ed]

Hi everyone:

Part of Hayley's appeal is the fact that she IS a Kiwi. NZ's recent popularity as a result of having been the filming location for The Lord of the Rings, The Chronicles of Narnia, etc. has brought the island nation to the forefront of people's consciousness. That she should spring forth from that country demonstrating such an awesome talent coupled with her beauty and character would serve to strike people as something unexpected. In my life here in the US, people seemed to concentrate on Australia as being the "land down under" and paid little heed to the beautiful country that sits beside it on the map. Thanks to Warner Bros., more attention was given to Tasmania over the years than to New Zealand. It's wonderful to see NZ be given the attention it has received of late here in the 'States. It's long overdue. If Hayley serves to emphasize that attention further, then all the more kudos to her.

[milewalker]

One question I have here is precisely what was meant by the term "specificity". The "identity" of anyone is in part a combination of all of the experiences they have had. In 2001, Hayley's reactions, thoughts, hopes etc were based entirely on New Zealand experience. There is a lot more base metal in that alloy now.

What I was trying to state above is that New Zealand is a very small country - and her international responsibilities are now quite large. IN 2001 she was able to concentrate virtually all her attention on her own country. What percentage of her attention is focused there now?

She no longer lives in New Zealand. The longer she spends away from there, the more personal connections she will make in the countries where she spends more time. This is not to say that she doesnt get homesick - I am sure she does. But having said this, with the passing of time, more and more of her life will focus elsewhere.

It is unfortunate in a way - and the truth is I sympathize greatly with Belinda and the other New Zealanders who post here and occasionally decry matters specifically relating to this - and I am amazed at the level of consistant loyalty they continue to show.

Jon

[Eric]

Hi Milewalker, and everyone,

Valid points, yet I do not completely agree. I don't think that Hayley's NZ heritage or identity will suffer as a result of, or as a condition for, her success. I believe Hayley has and will continue to fully embrace every opportunity to promote her country. She is of Irish ancestry, yes, but she is full-blooded KIWI! Her heart obviously lies with her family, and also with her homeland. While her responsibilities and personal connections do increase worldwide, and her time to focus on her homeland diminishes, her deep love and personal connection do not. I believe she will always look for ways to actively promote her country. This is her identity. From what I can tell, she loves the places, the people, the country itself.

Some may argue that artists like Keith Urban have become Westernized and in the process lost some identity with their homeland. This may be a valid point, as many of his songs do not seem to reflect much of his heritage. I believe Hayley is different, however. Instead of being Westernized, I think she has been "Westenra-ized" (let's not forget who raised her). ....she has strong support from and strong ties with her family. From what little I know about her and her parents, I would say that her identity as a full-fledged KIWI is the last thing she or her family will willingly give up. And no, I don't think that her success hinges on her ability to "hide" her KIWI-ness. Personally, I think it adds a bit of something, as Ed alluded to earlier.

These questions are always going to be asked, however, regardless of the amount of time she is able to spend there, because the path to a successful career does not lie in New Zealand. These successful opportunities are lacking there; however, I believe her heart will eventually lead her back to her home (with a very successful career in progress or already accomplished). New Zealand will welcome back its jewel with open arms, I'm sure!

Having said all that, I'll "disclaim" it with this:
Merely an opinion of a twenty-one year old whippersnapper,
Eric

[milewalker]

I will make one other comment, and then shut up about this.

I agree that this would likely not happen as a condition of her success - in fact it need not be anything directly connected with her career at all - except that it presently requires her to spend a lot of time away from home.

Ironically, a question very similar to this occurred to me when I heard that she was trying to buy a house in London. Renting is one thing but that has a certain permanance to it - a putting down of roots as it were at least for the "foreseeable future". When she decided to do that, doesnt it mean that at least to some extent, her "specificity" has already been indirectly compromised because of her career?

I am not trying to predict the future, and I hope the staff here forgives a little speculation on my part, but another thread which runs pretty consistantly in her interviews is the hope for a personal life at some point. As she is almost never in NZ, the presumptive probability is that the lucky fella, should this occur, will either be a Brit (or even worse) a Yankee . As I said, I am not predicting the future. I am merely saying that this is not far-fetched - particularly if she actually does buy a house in the UK.

Her career is now obviously no longer centered in New Zealand. The longer she lives away from there, the greater the chance that she will begin to establish personal roots elsewhere as well. Which is the point I was trying to make - and why I asked above what exactly was meant by specficity. I am not sure if this sort of consideration was what the original question has in mind - but a friend of mine is fond of saying that "everything gets you to where you are" Her heart may always lie in NZ - but what exactly does that mean when the rest of her is in the UK?

Jon

[stevemacdonald]

stephany said:

... Hayley is immensely proud of her NZ roots and has always included Maori tracks...except in "Celtic Treasure" and that would maybe be the beginning of an answer. What do you guys think?

Let's see.... Pure had a couple of Maori songs, Odyssey had none and neither did Celtic Treasure. The music behind "E Pari Ra" sounds very western/classical to my ears.

I don't think Hayley needs to tap any further into her NZ roots to find suitable material. I sense she's "been there, done that" with the Maori songbook and won't ever strike gold again the way she did with "Pokarekare Ana."

New Zealand's population is about half that of New York City. While it has its proud national identity and more than its share of notable citizens, the opportunities for advancement in the music world are quite restricted unless one moves abroad.

Those Kiwis who do move bring a part of NZ with them and spread whatever "specificity" they grew up with to the world. Having met Hayley, I feel almost like an honorary citizen of Christchurch, as I'm sure several of us do. She brings so much of where she's from forward into her career.

[Eric]

Hi Jon (Milewalker),

You have an interesting argument. I may be basing my thoughts on my own limited experiences; however, I still think her heart lies in NZ, though her house may eventually be located elsewhere.

And heaven help her if she finds a Yankee!! Though I'm sure she and the Westenras can set him straight!!

A Fellow Yankee

[milewalker]

stevemacdonald said:

Those Kiwis who do move bring a part of NZ with them and spread whatever "specificity" they grew up with to the world. Having met Hayley, I feel almost like an honorary citizen of Christchurch, as I'm sure several of us do. She brings so much of where she's from forward into her career.

OK - so I lied I am just trying to keep up with Stephany

Nothing that I said above should be construed that I think that Hayley will not continue to use her career to promote New Zealand and its heritage. I do believe however that her overall perspective has changed, and will continue to change just like everyone else's does - by the sum total of her personal experiences.

Jon

[grant]

ericd03 said:

Valid points, yet I do not completely agree. I don't think that Hayley's NZ heritage or identity will suffer as a result of, or as a condition for, her success. I believe Hayley has and will continue to fully embrace every opportunity to promote her country. She is of Irish ancestry, yes, but she is full-blooded KIWI! Her heart obviously lies with her family, and also with her homeland. While her responsibilities and personal connections do increase worldwide, and her time to focus on her homeland diminishes, her deep love and personal connection do not. I believe she will always look for ways to actively promote her country. This is her identity. From what I can tell, she loves the places, the people, the country itself.

A 21 year old whippersnapper eh?

Well I think you've pretty much summed up what a great many of us on this forum have felt about Hayley from the beginning

Best wishes
Grant

[Ed]

Speaking only from personal experience, one's national identity doesn't necessary change with a change in one's country of residence. I was only 7 years of age when my folks immigrated to the US what seems like an eternity ago, and I've been a naturalized US citizen since 1974, yet I still have some rather vivid memories of my native land and still hold it dear to my heart. I am quick to tell folks that I am a Brazilian by birth, still speak Portuguese, and that in spite of having lived here for 55 years, 28 of which I was served in the military, in active and reserve capacities, I'm still a Brazilian in my heart. Considering Hayley has lived in New Zealand far longer than I lived in Brazil, it's very likely Haley will feel the same about New Zealand.

With respect to whatever fellow is fortunate enough to capture her heart, I'm sure Haley is intelligent enough to choose wisely and to allow for a long enough courtship that she'll know whether he is worthy of her, loves her truly and deeply for herself, and not just a silver-tongued devil who wants a trophy on his arm. Not everyone can have the good fortune to have a six-month courtship and a 37 year marriage as did I.

Ed