Sure-fire ways for Hayley to succeed in the USA

[socalboy]

Thanks for your thoughts Jon. Several things occur to me in response to what you say.

While there is no bright line – all of us probably find ourselves in a slightly different place on the Hayley continuum - I think it’s fair to say that two generalized camps emerge from this discussion.

1. The first camp points to Hayley’s extraordinary success in many major markets outside the U.S. and says she has achieved that success doing the music she loves, and by being true to her basic instincts. This camp feels that a similar measure of success – perhaps not exactly the same kind – is still possible in the U.S. with the right promotion.

2. The second camp contends that, for better or worse, the North American market is unique, and that Hayley’s efforts to crack it have generally not been well served by her label. Some in this camp also believe – to varying degrees – that some customization is necessary for this market, and perhaps for this market alone.

As an unapologetic member of the second camp, I will say that the first camp has a compelling argument. I can only speak for myself, but I acknowledge my geo-centrism. Sometimes those of us living here like to believe the world – and particularly the entertainment world – revolves around us. I’m right here in LaLa land and I know how guilty I can be of this. The fact is, being hugely successful in the States is not everything, and it’s not necessary for Hayley. She has a great life and always will, because she’s such an outstanding human being. As I’ve said before, the compromises may not be worth it.

Camp 1 would like Hayley to be successful in the States, but not if it means that she and/or her music must change. Many members of this camp have had personal encounters with Hayley, something I will probably not experience. These encounters are clearly magical and create permanent emotional bonds. That much is obvious from reading the current thread of stories relating some of these meetings. Those of us who have not been there may not fully appreciate the magnetism of her personality and the allegiance it produces.

But still…I want to have all the Hayley concerts the Brits have. I want to be able to talk about Hayley to friends who share my passion for her music. And I want to hear that voice on my car radio and see that face on MTV. It’s partly selfish, but that’s what I want. So I guess my motives as a member of the second camp are not altogether Pure.

All of this is to say I think I understand why there is a division. And I will continue trying to find ways to reconcile the differences.

I’m not for a moment backing away from the strategy I outlined. I believe that some or all of it would help promote the kind of professional growth that Jon alludes to, and could propel Hayley to another level here in a way that would make all of us deliriously happy for her. If Hayley’s happy, we’re all happy. That much I know we can agree on.

p.s. Dave - thanks for your most recent post as well, which went up just as I posted mine. Intriguing idea.

[milewalker]

Dave - not a bad idea at all - which is pretty darned good in a world where there dont seem to be many good ideas. I missed the oppurtunity to post earlier that the main drawback I saw with Steve.s two album scheme was that it may have violated another touchpoint - her work load disturbs me. Still, your way would probably be less stressful than his.

SocialBoy - I agree with your excellent summary. If I may add one thing though, a part of what I am saying is that I believe that some of those fanbase issues are going to come home to roost to some degree or another anyway. The UK/US debate in my mind is related to this in part because almost any approach to the US which has any chance of working at all might excerbate those issues which I think already are, or soon will be there.

Jon

Thanks both of you

[Eric]

Thanks Grant and SocialBoy for the tips,

Glad to know I'm among fellow sufferers of "Hayley-itis." The "Hayley Effect" was too strong for me.

Back to the posts before, I had a question which may have already been addressed. It seems to me that both "Pure" and "Odyssey" (which I have recently bought and listened to) have been more of a general push for a targeted younger audience. And I still believe that if these songs were pushed a little more upon the public, teenagers and young adults (20's) would grasp on to most, if not all, of these songs. I still believe that these "old" songs around the world, if they were introduced again to the States, they would be hugely successful!

I think it's been alluded to in this post that there are more "pop" songs on those CD's than on the current "Celtic Treasure." It seems as though the targeted audience for "Celtic Treasure" is the same group of individuals that would love Celtic Woman (most likely an older generation, more appreciative of certain cultural traditions and songs). Coincidence? If this was meant to be, in order to play upon Celtic Woman's success in the States to introduce more people to Ms. Hayley, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. I also don't feel like it is a sign of how Ms. Hayley will produce her CD's in the future. I feel like certain circumstances may have prompted some of these songs. Does anyone else see this comparison? (There are so many facets of Ms. Hayley and her music to fall in love with, it's difficult to settle on just one genre...I guess that's why I was so surprised upon hearing her other two cd's)!

I don't know what Ms. Hayley will do for her next CD or really what she should do. One thing I know for sure is this: It doesn't matter what Ms. Hayley sings from here on out...I'm hooked...she could sing me a rendition of Justin Timberlake's "Sexy Back" and my heart would melt every time!!.
But I pray that she never even considers such a thing!

Don't want to throw anyone's thought processes off, just jumping in again!

-Eric

P.S. Let's get Hayley breaking more guys' hearts State-side!!! I'm ready to start passing out t-shirts saying, "I spent my allowance money to buy her albums, my car money to buy a decent concert seat, my girlfriend's present money to send her a dozen roses, borrowed Dad's car to drive hundreds of miles to hear her beautiful voice and spent my last bit of fast food money to purchase this t-shirt of Ms. Hayley. I am now single, hungry, broke, car-less, grounded-for-life, and in danger of losing my job. My only question: When is she coming back??"

[Richard]

Hello everybody.

I'm wondering how many other people are finding the time to read through this thread, because it's very long-winded and seems to be going round in circles. I'm struggling to read it all, so I suggest it's time to wind this discussion up.

Richard

[roger]

Sorry, Richard, but I don't agree the discussion should be concluded. I think this is one of the most fascinating threads we have ever had which fully justifies inclusion on the forum. Having said that, I would ask that everyone attempts to be relatively concise and avoid unnecessary repetition.

Thanks,
Roger

[Eric]

Thanks for the tip, guys and sorry for the confusion. I'll keep my input a lot shorter from now on.

My previous post may have been muddled, so here it is again (concise version):
1. Question: Is it possible to reintroduce Ms. Hayley's "old" stuff to the States (as it may not have been effectively marketed last time)?
2. Opinion: I don't necessarily think that "Celtic Treasure" reveals a change in Ms. Hayley so much as it reflects what is currently happening (i.e. her tour with Celtic Woman).

Just my thoughts on the matter and sorry again if I'm re-hashing old stuff.

-Eric

[chungchungxavier]

From a certain entertainment magazine , I got the news that some Hollywood movie producers wish to hire Hayley for some acting jobs .


And Hayley has said many times that her other ambitions include becoming an actress .


So that's it . If she can break into Hollywood , that will be all BINGO ! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif

[milewalker]

chungchungsxavier - Interesting handle! Boy I hope that works out for her because if something like that were to happen it might render this entire discussion moot.

I will try to be as succinct as I can possibly be in the future. However, I am a newcomer here - and I suspect I have a point of view which might be mildly expressed as unique. I was trying very hard to approach this as diplomatically as possible - not only for the sake of the argument, but for my own. Paraphrasing Harry Truman, it usually isnt a good idea to spit up wind

Dave - upon further review I am warming up to your idea more and more - anything which gets her out of the Charlotte Church marketing model and into almost anything else will increase her chances over here. It also takes the best part of Steve's idea and mitigates some of the problem,

Movies, or another similar breakthrough aside, it is obvious that the more of her UK fanbase she can keep as she moves on, the better her overall chances of having a nice career are. I think she may have a problem brewing in th UK now which only relates to the US in context, and which, if history is any guide will cost her to at least a degree. When Decca decided to call her album Pure, werent they "marketing her personal life for commercial gain" at some level? My perception is that they were - but to a target old enough to be her parents.

I sincerely hope that she can navigate all of this in a way that is both good for her, and for her UK audience.

Jon

Edit: I moderated Harry Truman, so don't take it personally!
Richard

[milewalker]

Eric - Celtic Woman does in my opinion represent an evolutionary sort of change - Hayley mentioned this herself in a recent interview - it got her out of her comfort zone. However, the point i was trying to make is that her efforts there become a part of her total experience and therefore contribute to a more overall "change"

No - I dont think there is a way to introduce her old matieral successfully. While I cant say you are wrong that it might play better with the right kind of marketing, there is a powerful industry perception in play that it wont - and as long as that perception is in place, even an artist of the magnitude of Hayley is not going to find it easy to tear down. As I said above, it generally isnt a good idea to spit up wind

Jon

[Dave]

milewalker said:

Dave - upon further review I am warming up to your idea more and more - anything which gets her out of the Charlotte Church marketing model and into almost anything else will increase her chances over here. It also takes the best part of Steve's idea and mitigates some of the problem,

Thanks Jon but I merely pinched the idea from Andrea Bocelli when I realised that's how he was doing it, a few years ago. But yes, I think it might work for Hayley too, if presented in the right way. Hayley's "classical" abilities are part of her trademark in the UK and it's generally a good idea to hang onto such trademarks if you can, I think. That would not apply in most other parts of the World. Doing this would also allow Decca to test the reaction in the UK to a Hayley "pop" album - knowing that they could make the next one "classical" again if it underperformed.

milewalker said:

When Decca decided to call her album Pure, werent they "marketing her personal life for commercial gain" at some level? My perception is that they were - but to a target old enough to be her parents.

If I recall corrrectly, the "Pure" publicity was primarily used to describe Hayley's voice and to a lesser extent her homeland New Zealand. I didn't think at the time (and I still don't) that the Decca publicists were in the "Pure" days marketing her personal attitudes or lifestyle.

Some of the media did then and do now pick up on aspects of Hayley's personal life but I don't think she was at the time actively promoted in that way. The publicists (or more likely, Hayley and her parents!) have that to their credit. (Edit: I admit it, the balance may have changed slightly, since the early days )

Cheers, Dave

[milewalker]

Dave,

You might be right. I did however see on article/interview where she was asked that question. Her reponse was a giggle and something like "I guess i will have to be pure forever". I will try to find it.

Edit 1- this isnt precisely the one I am looking for, but in the NY Times write up there is a quote which seems to suggest that at the time at least she was embracing both meanings of the word. I am continuing the search BTW I am not blaming Hayley for this.

"I see myself as pretty pure. I know that's a lot to live up to. They thought my voice was quite pure, and it is. It's natural. It's not like I'm trying to force it to sound like anything different. Yeah, I do see myself as pure."

Jon - the succinct

[milewalker]

Dave,

In the interest of honesty and fairness, I need to say that I just muddled through all kinds of posts on Hayley's official forum, and discovered somewhat to my surprise that you had actually anticipated several of the points I brought up here earlier. Just thought it worth a mention....

Jon

[Stephany]

socalboy said:

4. People Magazine’s 50 Most Beautiful People

This may seem a trifle, but believe me it’s not. This is a widely circulated special issue of People Magazine, and though it’s really quite innocent, it leaves a mark. And no bikinis required. Hayley belongs on this list because she is so obviously beautiful, inside and out. Her Kiwiness helps her here because People does try to make this international. Also, the fact that she’s less known could be a plus, as the magazine likes to showcase several stars on the rise along with the usual suspects. The publicists at Universal should be working feverishly for this one. It can be done and it could help put Hayley on the map. She may be a Kiwi, but Hayley looks the way American girls want to look (and of course like American guys want their girls to look). Again, I know this from sampling my own kids and their friends. They tell me she is “hot” without being threatening. She is pretty and thin. Get her in this issue.

I'm not too sure about this. I wouldn't want her to get too much exposure in magazines for something other than music. I recently read on the internet someone who had written an open letter two years ago to Mr Steve Abott and I sincerely hope something like this will NEVER happen.

[Stephany]

Here is the letter for those of you who are interested :

The Hayley for Ralph Campaign Starts Here!

An open letter to Steve Abbott, Hayley Westenra's manager.

Dear Mr Abbott,

I regret to advise that I have not as yet bought any music that Hayley Westenra has recorded.

However, this does not mean I could not be persuaded. Nor does it mean that I am not a keen fan of Ms Westenra's er... well anyway I like her a lot. Bearing this in mind, there is most certainly one course of action that could spur me to part with thirty dollars on Hayley's behalf. I am sure many of Hayley's fans would agree with me.

I would like you to consider booking a photoshoot for Hayley in Ralph Magazine. It could have a theme of your choosing... Hayley at the beach... Hayley sunbathing... Hayley cavorting in a fountain in a white teeshirt... Hayley relaxing in a bubblebath... up to you really. I'm sure you'll think of something tasteful.

Anyhoo, just something for you to ponder. It would definitely be one way of expanding her fanbase I reckon. Up to you.

Sincerely, your friend,
The Whig

[Richard]

Hello Stephany and everybody!

I'm not familiar with Ralph Magazine, and I don't want to know. I edited the quoted article slightly.

Best Wishes,

Richard