the BIG dilemma

[stevemacdonald]

I read most all the reviews of Pure on various sites, such as Amazon (both US and UK), Barnes & Noble, E-pinions, etc.

There seems to be an undercurrent that Hayley would be better off without all the orchestration. To quote one of the more eloquent reviews of her UK Christmas release:

"Strangely, I found Hayley's voice on the Christmas songs and "The Mummers' Dance" to be clearer and easier to hear (on some other tracks her delicate voice is almost swallowed by the music in places), as she is only accompanied by a few instruments rather than a full orchestra.

I've experienced Hayley at different times singing with full orchestra, with just a piano and violin, and a cappella. There is no doubt in my mind that she would sound significantly better on recordings if they dropped the big orchestra and went with the sparcest accompaniment possible.

So now, the BIG dilemma concerns how they put together the next album. Do they want to play it safe and keep the orchestration like it was on Pure, or would they take heed of the fans' preferences and keep it simple so the full loveliness of her voice is undiluted?

The record industry doesn't like to take chances, so it might be too much of a gamble to bring her voice out into the open all the way. That's a shame because, clearly, there is a yearning on her fans' part for something different.

Unfortunately, I don't see this dilemma resolving itself in the foreseeable future.

[Dave]

Very well put, Steve... I've had similar thoughts myself for some time.

I think Decca have been moving slightly away from "big" for Hayley, ever since "Pure" first came out and it looks like in doing that, they have taken note of fans' reactions. As examples, I'd mention the vocalise version of Pokarekare Ana, and the Special Edition of Pure issued in the UK recently... the 7 track bonus disc has a much "lighter" feel than the original CD.

The problem is that "big" sells CDs. Look at the recent success in the UK of "IL DIVO" who had a big no. 1 in the pop chart and sold over a million in 2 months. That's about as "big" as you can get - in classical crossover - and it worked - so Decca will be scared of upsetting Hayley's apple cart.

So, like you, I see the dilemma and I suspect the next album will be another mix of styles and arrangements, with a bit more "lighter" material than before... and some heavy orchestral backing on some tracks, probably toned down a bit, compared to Pure. That's how I'd do it anyway... they daren't risk losing half of the fanbase by changing a successful formula too much too soon.

But there is another way, at least in the UK. New chart rules mean that Decca could issue TWO versions of the new album, if both are released at the same time. Version 1, the basic CD, would be done much like Pure, big sound and all in places. It would be pitched at the mass market and is where most of the sales would come from. Version 2 would be a two disc set for the big fans like us, disc 1 being the same as the basic CD and disc 2 containing a full set of additional tracks. Disc two could contain all sorts of lighter material, acapella and vocalise - it would keep us happy for years!

The new rules mean that sales of both versions of the CD would be combined into one chart entry and everyone would be happy. This can only be done when a CD is first released, which is why Decca had a problem with the UK special edition of "Pure". I'd be willing to pay quite a bit more for a two CD set like that, and the dilemma would be resolved at a stroke! Are you listening, Decca? i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif

[HWI]

Hi guys,

I can see exactly what you are both saying. there are occasions when Hayley is almost lost among the sea of sound. However, I would dispute that this has anything to do with the orchestration.

The modern trend seems to be for one of competition between the vocalists and the musicians - who can be heard best. What seems to have been forgetten is that the musicians are there to accompany, not compete. Therefore, the problem is not with the orchestration, it's with the post recording mixing of the album. Today's engineers and technicians do not seem to appreciate that it really IS the singer we want to hear, not the orchestra. The answer is very simple. Tone down the record levels on the musicians side of things and bring up the record levels on the vocalist. Problem solved. Full orchestration AND a vocalist that everyone can hear.

Keith.

[Dave]

Keith said:

Hi guys,

I can see exactly what you are both saying. there are occasions when Hayley is almost lost among the sea of sound. However, I would dispute that this has anything to do with the orchestration.

I think it is for some fans, Keith. As an example, whilst I enjoy the "big" version of say Pokarekare Ana on the original Pure, I tend to enjoy the "acoustic guitar" version often played on Classic FM even more (depends on my mood). That's why I'd love to see an alternative "fans" version of the next album, so we can have it all!

[daddytom]

I agree guys since I have commented on this subject before. Keith is right, the sound mixing after recording is a key that can make or break a vocalist.

I think we have Halyley in our court based on her comments in the Christmas interview. She has indicated she is leaning toward music styles that don't fit with big orchestras. More of a folk/soul type of music which her voice would fit beautifully. It's a matter of who is calling the shots and I think Hayley is wanting more control. It will be interesting.

[Joe]

Yeah, just listening to the two versions of "Mary, Did You Know" did it for me. The version on the Xmas album My Gift To You is too orchestral whilst the version from the 4 track Xmas CD is so light and graceful; the orchestra is barely heard. This goes for "Away In a Manger" and "The Mummers' Dance" as well. I suppose it's up to the Decca bosses really.

[Richard]

Hello again folks, I'm undecided on this one.

I agree that Hayley's voice sounds absolutely stunning and beautiful on its own, but I also find it stands out clearly from an orchestral backing as well.

As I mentioned in the "Other Albums" section of the Forum, I have got the soundtrack CD of "Mulan 2", which features Hayley singing "Here Beside Me". This song has a very big orchestral backing, but Hayley's soprano voice really stands out.

I also find that on "Pure" the outstanding feature for me is Hayley's voice, so I think the ideal situation would be for Hayley to continue with a mixture of big and small backings, but perhaps with a little more emphasis on the smaller backings.

It will be interesting to see if Hayley progresses to full operatic arias in the future.

I expect we'll be talking about this one at Olympia!

Bye for now,

Richard

[Natasha]

I think Keith is right. I've always though they should have made Hayley a little louder in "Benedictus" when she's singing the 'Hosana's' with the orchestra.

It was the same thing on the PBS special when that part comes you can barely tell she's not part of the choir....

[Richard]

Hello again Natasha!

Now I've heard Hayley singing at Olympia with just a violin and a piano, I definitely agree that she sounds better with a small backing. Her voice has matured nicely in the eighteen months that I've known her, and there are now lots of fine details in her singing that could be lost with a bigger backing.

There are plenty of singers around who take advantage of a full orchestra to cover their limitations, but I won't mention any names.

I've had a listen to the clips of your albums with Crystal on your web site, and I like them, so congratulations!

Best Wishes from London,

Richard