Dave
Administrator
HWI Admin
Posts: 7,699
|
Post by Dave on Sept 20, 2005 23:31:05 GMT
Nice to see a purely Classical singer at # 1 even if it is a countertenor. What I have to say was prompted by an intriguing remark made by Stephanie recently in the Latest Chart News thread "...even if it is a countertenor" and I just *had to * investigate more - it would have been way off topic there, so here's a new thread  I have to confess, I only knew of Andreas Scholl by reputation - I'd never knowingly heard him sing before tonight. Come to think of it, I've never knowingly heard any countertenor sing before! I realised I still had a recording I made of the Last Night of the Proms (part 1) in which Andreas featured... so I just had to listen to him! There is of course a Hayley connection as he sung several of the arias in "Merchant of Venice" in which Hayley sung Bridal Ballad. Anyway, I finally sat down to listen to and enjoy this undoubtedly fine singer a few minutes ago. But I got the shock of my life! I was impressed by his excellent vocal skills... but I gasped at the sound of his voice. In fact, I gasped so much that I couldn't watch him singing after the first few minutes!!! I can't explain why this is, but it just didn't sound right and it made me feel uncomfortable. I wonder if this is what Stephanie meant by that comment?  It sounded kind of... weird. Sorry countertenor fans because I know hes a fine singer... so tell me what I'm missing! But at the moment, all I can say is...  |
|
|
|
Post by stephch on Sept 22, 2005 21:59:49 GMT
Dave that is pretty much what I meant by the whole countertenor thing.Yes he is a fine singer but there is something I didlike about countertenor's.
|
|
HWI
Administrator
For Hayley Fans Everywhere
Posts: 865 
|
Post by HWI on Sept 23, 2005 3:00:42 GMT
The thing about countertenors is that they are basically today's castratos. Yes, their voices are very fine indeed but, I do not consider that they are stand alone (solo) artists. They do work well in a group (the King Singers as an example). When they sing alone, I think they take an awful lot of work to listen to - and the song has to be just right for the voice - as in the Merchant of Venice.
Keith.
|
|
|
|
Post by roger on Sept 23, 2005 6:56:29 GMT
I have to agree with you Dave. The sound of any countertenor makes me feel so uncomfortable that I cannot bear to listen. My determination to hit the off switch before the first note was heard, once resulted in the radio crashing into the wall. I can still see the impression on the wallpaper!
Roger
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Sept 23, 2005 7:50:37 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by roger on Sept 23, 2005 8:05:07 GMT
Had this been a poll, the first five votes would have gone against the countertenors (as solo artists). This cannot be indicative of the population as a whole or Andreas Scholl would not have reached #1. So does anyone hear like him/them?
Roger
|
|
|
|
Post by Oksana on Sept 24, 2005 19:30:17 GMT
Hi everyone!
I don't dislike countertenors as much as everyone here seems to, but I would never buy a CD by them. It's funny that Andrea's got to #1.
|
|
|
|
Post by gareth on Sept 25, 2005 23:13:10 GMT
Well,
As far as I am concerned, Andreas Scholl is a refreshing change from the three tenors. I found listening to him far more moving than listening to Pavarotti, Carreras, Domingo, Terfel AND Bocelli - and throw in Aled Jones as well.
Why on earth are you lot so squirmish about Andreas? As far as I am concerned, he is doing very well as a solo artist.
Aren't you lot taking the same attitude towards Andreas that some elitist commentators are (and have been) taking to classical crossover artists like Hayley?
As to the castrato comment by Keith, I'm not an expert on that. Are you, Keith? I would have thought that the young boy soprano (treble) voice of Aled Jones would be much more the castrato voice than the mature, totally different voice of Andreas Scholl. You aren't by any chance suggesting that Andreas' voice is the result of some unnnatural operation, are you? My understanding of the castratos is that they were castrated so as to preserve their boy soprano voice. And, most emphatically, Andreas Scholl is not a soprano.
I'm sorry if I sound a bit blunt - but I do think all of you who are falling over each other to express your opinions about the unnatural character of Andreas Scholl's voice should ask yourself why YOU are uncomfortable with it.
Ohh and one more thing, I find the use of :eek2: in this context offensive. It creates the impression that someone wants to spit out Andreas Scholl.
That sort of thing just isn't on.
Thanks for listening - and yes, I am not impressed with the imbalanced nature of the posts here - so maybe I myself am writing an imbalanced post.
As for me, I will be adding a page for Andreas Scholl to my classicalrelatedperformances site soon. I doubt if I will post a link to it here though.
Hayley's fans in general don't seem to be appreciative of some out of the way performances like Andreas Scholl. Then again, a lot of the mainstay music world consider Hayley as being out of the way. So, what's going on here?
Gerrit
|
|
HWI
Administrator
For Hayley Fans Everywhere
Posts: 865
|
Post by HWI on Sept 25, 2005 23:29:30 GMT
Again, Gerrit, a complete misinterpretation of what is being said.
Read my post again and you will see that I said they are the modern day equivalent of castratos. That is, without any surgical intervention.
Their voices are so high that, when you see a counter tenor sing, it can really throw the listener who was not ready for it. Although the range of a counter tenor is natural, it is beyond the range perceived as normal for an adult male voice. And that is what throws people.
I think that the songs available to a counter tenor are very restricted in number. I have heard a few perform pieces normally sung in a lower register and they jar quite badly. Again, in my post, you will see that I mentioned this, but in a different way. When a song is written specifically for this voice, it works very well. Hence my reference to the Merchant of Venice.
They also work exceedingly well as part of the harmony in such groups as the Kings Singers. Which I also mentioned. But, selection of material is both limited and requires very careful selection.
I am not averse to hearing one but, I feel that their solo appeal is not as great as it could be because of the register. And, to say that Andreas Scholl being at number 1 is a measure of anything is a falacy. Sales figures in the market do not need to be particularly great to achieve that position. Sustaining it is a different matter. If this had happened 30 years ago, he probably would not have even got in the charts. This is purely down to the decline in overall sales figures.
But, I have already said that he has a great voice, and that should certainly be an indication that I am not dead set against counter tenors.
Keith.
|
|
|
|
Post by gareth on Sept 25, 2005 23:52:14 GMT
Keith,
You did NOT say that counter tenors like Andreas Scholl are the modern day equivalent of castratos. You said "The thing about countertenors is that they are basically today's castratos."
They are not equivalent to, they basically are. That's what you said.
As far as I am concerned, you are now trying to weaken your own initial statements.
And, if the counter tenor range is throwing people but is quite natural, why do you post messages that add to the impression that the counter-tenor voice is unnatural.
It's not unnatural, it's unusual. And I am trying to achieve an acceptance here of the unusual - whereas I cannot escape the conclusion that you and a few others are trying to cast Andreas Scholl's voice as being unnatural.
Thanks,
Gerrit
|
|
Dave
Administrator
HWI Admin
Posts: 7,699
|
Post by Dave on Sept 26, 2005 0:14:37 GMT
Well Gerrit, I'm a bit surprised by your post! Starting at the end, as your comment about the "eek!" smiley is directed at me, this is a pretty widespread internet smiley used to indicate shock and surprise - a development of the smiley. It's nothing to do with tongues, it's a jaw-drop. Well that's exactly what happened to me when I heard Andreas for the first time... I was shocked; I did not get what I expected. I do not think it is fair to say or imply that my post was insulting when it was full of praise for Andreas' undoubted talents. It's no good asking me WHY I feel that way at the sound of his voice either, as I don't yet know. It may simply be unfamiliarity with it. Perhaps it's a suspicion that falsetto may in some way be involved... but really, I don't yet know! I really don't see why people should not feel free to express a personal opinion about the sound of a singer's voice. I have encountered many times people who have told me they cannot stand the sound of Hayley's voice and when I ask them why, they usually don't know why, or say something like "it's too thin and high pitched for me". At which point, I just accept it as the personal opinion that it is, hoping that in the end, they will get used to it and start to hear it as I hear it. If you do not post links to Andreas' videos, how are we who are unfamiliar with his work ever to become familiar enough to possibly change our minds about... not him, but the sound of his voice? I hope you do post the links. Cheers, Dave |
|
|
|
Post by roger on Sept 26, 2005 0:36:54 GMT
I do not intend to become overly involved with this rather absurd argument but, as I have made two previous posts in this thread, I am not prepared to stay totally silent now.
From what has been said, most people here have expressed their dislike (to varying degrees) of the countertenor range. As Dave has said, that is merely our personal opinion. Nobody has in any way criticised Andreas or his voice; at most, some of us have indicated that it makes us feel uncomfortable. That is a very good way of putting it but I cannot explain why it should have such an effect as I am not a psychologist. It just does and I do not see why we should refrain from saying so here.
Gerrit, I am shocked at the vehemence with which you have argued over the wording of Keith's earlier post, when in my opinion, you misinterpretted his words. He said that countertenors are "...basically today's castratos" which I understood to mean "the equivalent of". That seems to be what you are saying too. So what is the problem?
I hope we can now continue this debate and not let it degenerate into a full-scale argument.
Roger
|
|
|
|
Post by gareth on Sept 26, 2005 2:01:10 GMT
May I only quote Someone's comment? "I don't dislike countertenors as much as everyone here seems to"?
That's what's been happening here - an unreasonable dislike to counter tenors.
Now, get that act in order, please.
Gerrit
|
|
|
|
Post by kcuteus1 on Sept 26, 2005 3:52:12 GMT
Andreas Scholl he is a very good singer but I do not know if I could get a cd of his. I can not get use to hearing a male sound like that . But I did here alot of countertenors and I would have to say that I like countertenors doing Ombra Mai Fu the best which this song is for a countertenor. I heard Andreas Scholl singing this aria and it is very good.
|
|
HWI
Administrator
For Hayley Fans Everywhere
Posts: 865
|
Post by HWI on Sept 26, 2005 21:55:02 GMT
Hi folks,
Okay, Portia presented a good argument why this thread should not be locked. I have, therefore, seen fit to acquiesce and reopen the thread to discussion.
Please keep it friendly and conversational.
Cheers,
Keith.
|
|
It sounded kind of... weird. Sorry countertenor fans because I know hes a fine singer... so tell me what I'm missing! But at the moment, all I can say is... 
