Review of Odyssey

[kcuteus1]

I may be the only one that thinks this but I think some of the songs on Odyssey could of been better than the best songs on pure but they fell a little bit short and I think that could be that she is still young and still has to grow not just in her voice but also in life I do not think she has want though alot of stuff . How I am young but I have been though alot and has to over come stuff I think Hayley do not expeted that are the most part so I think she did not put the feeling in some of the songs that is needed like with you are water from the US one she could of put some more feeling into it, and also I say grace . I would of also of likes to see some more new songs.

And I may be the only one that is like this but I also had mixed feelings about Pure.

[roger]

Hi Kimberly,

Your comments intrigue me and I suspect you are not alone in thinking that way. I cannot comment on 'You Are Water' because I have not yet heard it but certainly 'I Say Grace' was somewhat disappointing. It may have helped if she had injected more feeling into it (and some of the other songs) but I believe that, in some cases, they were just the wrong songs.

Mixed feelings about Pure, eh? No, I don't think I would ever say that but there is one song there (In Trutina) that I simply don't enjoy. Overall though, I think the album is as near to perfect as I am ever likely to hear.

Roger

[portia]

classicgrace said:

I noticed the lack of emotion on recordings of another singer, Charlotte Church. She truly lived her music but on her albums ... yes, she was always on tune and angelically beautiful but emotion???

Uh, I could almost say that's blatantly untrue. While Charlotte lacked technique and pushed herself too hard, I would really commend her for the emotion in her singing. Listen to Enchantment again, she has lots of emotion in Carrickfergus and other songs. On her pop album (her best album so far), she has full blown emotion.

Hayley has a much limited emotional range. I've heard her sing live and I've heard her on a CD. I used to think it may be her songs, but after listening to original versions of Both Sides Now and Never Saw Blue, I hold that back. I just don't think Hayley's a developed enough artist. And whether she is an artist remains to be seen.

[fusilier23]

Full-blown emotion if you're into lust, anger and angst, I suppose. Those emotions don't do much for me in singing. I'm unclear as to what everyone here is looking for when they talk about putting more emotion into singing. Is it that you want Hayley to almost act when she sings? There's certainly room for that kind of thing, the tenor who lifts his hand at the height of the heroic piece, the soprano's wink or slight sway of the hips in a seductive song, and if done well it can be quite effective, but if done poorly it can come off as just hokey. Do you want her to "feel" her songs more? This can also be a good thing, but it's dangerous to let one's emotions run out of control on stage, leading to gushing about how great a song is or in some cases tears between songs. Or is it that her songs sound, well, technocratic? That is frequently the problem with studio recordings that are done two bars at a time, leaving the artist with no room to build to any kind of emotion musically and leaving that too-perfect, untouched-by-human-hands feeling. I have, as part of a chorus, done both live and studio recording, and always felt more emotion when hearing the live performances, where you could really sense the transport of the Hallelujah chorus, the exaltation of The Heavens are Telling, and the unarticulable horror and sadness of the Lacrimosa. In Hayley's DVD I think you get a lot more emotion, because she is singing live and really thinking about the whole idea of what she is singing, not just the next 2 bars.

Hayley does have room to develop still, it is true, and one of my fears is that she might get pushed too far before she develops to her full potential, but to say she is underdeveloped is not the case, and to say that whether she is an artist or not is up for question is kind of a non sequitur. You might as well say whether some elected official is a leader remains to be seen.

This is a great discussion, but it has to be non-hurtful to be productive, and I think a statement like that kinda treads the line, and I find it interesting it comes from someone with less time in than Hayley.

[kcuteus1]

Steve you are making a good point about the recording studio. have alot of cds of musicals and I so alot of tham and there is more emotion with tham live. I have Hayley DVd and some of the stuff there is more emotion but she still needs to work on that. she needs to let go.

[nicola]

I don't agree about Charlotte Church not having any emotion. She is a very emotive singer. Songs like 'Papa Do You Hear Me' and especially 'The Laughing Song' Charlotte brings the emotion across really well. But Charlotte has other problems with her classical singing. If you want to hear Charlotte sing well and emotionally try her pop album. I have far more respect for Charlotte with pop album than I ever did with her classical ones.

As for Becky, I have only really listened to her latest album, therefore I only heard the deepness of her voice. I was very impressed by her latest album and I prefer to Hayleys to be honest.

Anyway, this isn't about Becky or Charlotte I'm not saying Steve, that Hayley should start swerving her hips etc, my whole point is that her recording voice is utterly emotionless. I listen to it and don't feel as if she means it. That's my only gripe with Hayley. I have watched her DVD and it is better. Like I said, I like Hayley live... I will still go to her concerts because she is a great performer. I have never left a concert or studio disappointed with Hayley.

I have to agree with Kim, I have mixed feelings about Pure as well. Pure has some production problems but some of the songs are dead on such as 'Across the Universe of time' and 'Benedictus' (though I prefer the original version) Her previous albums for that I'm not so mixed, I quite simply don't like them. Now, that is not purely because of Hayley, it's what her production team do to the arrangements. My biggest ever disappointment came from Hayleys 'Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again'. I have said it several times, but she is singing about a dead father, why is it upbeat?

As for all this... International version, Uk version etc etc... I don't know what you are talking about as I only have the UK version. But it's interesting how they market her different in different countries. I'm not with the whole tracklisting argument neither, because personally I don't listen to albums whole way through, I skip tracks and therefore the before and after song of 'She Moves Through The Fair' has no affect on me whatsoever.

As for the ultimate honesty, I don't play any of Hayleys albums. I have them all - I have her singles, I bought her DVD and Biography. I can't say I thoroughly enjoyed any of it (except Pure, I enjoyed that album at first). This may beg the question as to why I like Hayley. It's her voice. I'm waiting around for her to release an album where she is singing the right songs, where her production team doesn't over produce. Take Pokarekare Ana for example, loved the version on her first album. Then Pure comes along and they tear it apart with beats and a choir. They recognise her voice to be pure... so why not leave it that way every now and again and let it take centre stage instead of all this production noise? Does anyone know what I mean? I love Hayley, I will always be a fan of hers, I will attend her concerts I'm just binding my time for that beautiful voice to come into play in a way that suits me. It may never happen, but I will enjoy watching what she does anyway.

[Richard]

Hello again everybody!

This is a fascinating discussion. I've seen Hayley sing live eight times so far, and I agree she seems to put more emotion into her singing when she performs to a live audience. I also feel that Hayley has a very strong stage presence, which comes over in her DVD. This aspect does not come across on CD because you are only listening to a recording of her singing voice. Hayley also has a very nice way of talking on stage, which adds quite a lot to the enjoyment of her shows. Because I've seen Hayley in concert several times, I find it easy to picture her in my mind when I listen to her CDs, which certainly adds something. i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif

My comments would also be applicable to many other singers as well as Hayley. Good singers are always at their best in front of a live audience.

Best Wishes,

Richard

[portia]

Steven, I've recorded before as well, and I can tell you that no matter how they split the songs, it should be a requirement that you sing each phrase with just as much emotion as it would be in a whole. That's the trick of recording, to make each separate part like it was part of a whole. And I think that should be a requirement of the artist.

Compared to other artists, I think Hayley has a very limited emotional range. But, I expect that of her since she's only eighteen and hasn't experienced much. Emotion to me means not drama, but the simple feeling and honest feeling that comes with being human. It comes with every song, because all songs are composed by humans.

I'm interested in Hayley mainly because she's young, but my cyncism doesn't permit me to go any further until she can produce a performance that fits into the criteria I think defines a good artist. The same way I followed Charlotte Church's career with mild interest until she produced a pop album, then I really started to like her. Not to the point where she was my favorite artist like Leonard Cohen, but my respect for her as an artist grew by leaps and bounds. That's the same thing I'm hoping from Hayley.

As to voice, I'm not interested in that. I can pick a dozen or so young singers who can sing up to Hayley's standard. If I want a truely beautiful voice, I listen to Maria Callas or Domingo or Carreras. And to some extent I listen to Broadway voices such as Idina Menzel. I don't think Hayley has a particularly good voice. I think it's simply helped by the fact that she has perfect pitch. I want to see how her artistry develops when she's, say twenty or twenty three.

Becky, however, I think very highly of, again, not because of her voice, but for the fact that she puts lots of emotion and is completely genuine on her recordings, a feat I think is actually quite hard for most singers these days.

[fusilier23]

Ah yes, nothing kills a good song like overproduction. I have once and once only seen Hayley live with a full orchestra, and that was with the Boston Pops, who, despite being great players, do tend to over-orchestrate so that everything sounds big and lush, though on Hayley's solo numbers like "Walking In the Air" and "The Little Road to Bethlehem" Patrick Hollenbeck (their arranger) had the sense to back off a bit. But the times she's sounded best is with just Fiona and Ian, where it's all about the voice. And Hayley's good-natured chatter between songs does help to set the mood, thankfully she doesn't overdo it like an Ani DiFranco, who has to turn everything into a diatribe, nor attempt to be too "precious" like Charlotte in her younger days.

Yes, it should be a requirement that you put the same emotion into your performance in a studio recording as you do in a live performance, but the dynamics are different and it is not easy to do. I know that it gets awfully frustrating having to stop and start, stop and start, and that can't help but show.

As to the CC comments, are you saying Hayley should go pop? I have to disagree, first because I think Charlotte's pop album is junk and represents a sell-out and abuse of what was talent, secondly because pop is a much more transient field where she'd be competing with far too many other artists with established followings.

As to voice, yes, there are other singers who have voices that are like Hayley's, but to imply Hayley-like voices are a dime a dozen simply isn't true. As for beautiful voices, well, I'd agree with Domingo and Carreras, and add Ben Heppner to that mix, but I can't listen to Maria Callas without thinking of her as, well, tainted by her outrageous behavior, the same way that when I was in college chorus the special assignments didn't go strictly on merit, behavior factored into the equation as well.

Anyhu, this thread is supposed to be about the album, not a forum to critique Hayley generally, and I'm not sure that would be a good idea, since I think it might rapidly become a forum for vilification and angry defense, so I'll say no more.

[Dave]

This thread demonstrates that what constitutes good music is very much a matter of personal opinion. There is no absolute measure of what makes a good singer or album and for every person who praises an album there is probably at least one other who disagrees. This may even apply to the most widely praised and biggest selling albums in history - such as Sgt. Pepper, Dark Side of The Moon, Nevermind, The Three Tenors in Concert; the very best classical albums, too.

I think it is true to say that "Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder" and I am sure this applies equally to music. I have heard people complimenting Hayley's "beautiful bell-like voice" and in the same conversation, others critizing her "piercing high-pitched shriek". One person told me that Hayley's voice "does his head in" while others have told me it soothes them - and their baby to sleep. Until, that is, they get to the "Benedictus" track (and Wuthering Heights) on Pure! Better to play Odyssey, if you want to drift gently off to sleep...

As for emotion in a singer, to some people (like me!) it is overrated. It is usually acted, sometimes over-acted and if it is real, it can get in the way of clarity, technique or technical excellence. If a wonderfully emotional performance leads to chopped or off-key notes it (I've heard it happen many times) it "does my head in" - to quote from someone else. In certain circumstances I can overlook it and in others, I love it - but it depends on my mood at the time. But an apparent (to some) lack of emotion in a performance does not necessarily suppress emotion in the listener. Many things have to be right to make ME emotional while listening to an album, and an emotional performance by the singer isn't necessarily one of them.

There is also the question, what sort of emotion? I can think of nothing worse than the 'wrong type of emotion' in a performance and that, if it occurs, leaves me cold. Frankly, I'd rather that the singer concentrated on getting everything else right and leave the emotional side of things to me. When in certain moods, emotion is the last thing I want to hear from a singer - sometimes I want calmness and to be left to my thoughts. I find that Odyssey is good for this.

Some people will agree with me, others will disagree but that's my point - it's all in the eye of the beholder; ear of the listener, if you like. And I guess we shouldn't be surprised to see so many opposing views in this thread, it's to be expected and the more we try to analyse it, the more differences of opinion will emerge. It's also why we should keep our comments constructive and low-key (as we mostly have done) and recognise that whatever we write and however strongly we feel about it, it is no more than our personal opinion. You probably know mine, by now.

Cheers, Dave

[kcuteus1]

I have to agree with Kim, I have mixed feelings about Pure as well. Pure has some production problems but some of the songs are dead on such as 'Across the Universe of time' and 'Benedictus' (though I prefer the original version) Her previous albums for that I'm not so mixed, I quite simply don't like them. Now, that is not purely because of Hayley, it's what her production team do to the arrangements. My biggest ever disappointment came from Hayleys 'Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again'. I have said it several times, but she is singing about a dead father, why is it upbeat?

Nicola,

I feel the same way you do about wishing you were somehow here again, I also feel that way about her I dreamed a dream on that cd. I also do not like the all I ask of you on the cd. But I would have to say I do feel that the I dreamed a dream on her DVD is better.


Dave ,

Sometimes with some songs it is alsways good to have some kind of feeling and emovtion. I feel that a really good singer well a singer that can be said to be some of the best are sigers that are both good with the pich and that stuff and with the feeling and emovtion. Hayley is not at that point right now but there are some singers that I feel on at that point.


I like Hayley alot but it does not have much to do with her voice as that I have alot of other singers cds that kind of have voices like that . I think I am into seeing how Hayley would grow as a singer.


Odssecy is not a bad cd But I feel it could of been better.

[gareth]

Wow - this thread has been livening up - I must say, on the whole, beauty in this case is indeed in the ear of the audience.

I do think that emotion in a song is important, and, having made a comment earlier about Katherine putting more emotion in her singing, I think I should rewrite that - in the last half year there have been definitely more cases that I was moved by Katherine's singing than by Hayley's singing. So, beauty is also in the heartstrings of one's inner self.

Just as there is no arguing about taste

There's a lot more that I could say - but I find this one of the best and most open discussions about any album I have ever participated in!

[kcuteus1]

Gerrit,

I also have been more moved my Katherine's singing than Hayley latley but I think it has to do with alot of things like I like some of the songs that Katherine does more than the ones that Hayley does. But I am moved my alot of singers I wish Hayley cds would move me more . But some of the songs she does I think she does not gave you the feeling that I think you sould get out of a song. I like her dino Lament but as much as others.

[roger]

gareth said:

....beauty is also in the heartstrings of one's inner self.

Well said, that man. That is exactly how music should be heard.

Hayley has often indicated that the words of certain songs mean a lot to her. I am sure she really "feels" the words as she sings them. If her voice fails to convey that emotion, is that a failing on her part, or on the part of the listener? Let's quickly use an analogy....

If a comedian tells a joke which causes most of his audience to laugh, but you fail to see the humour, is that his fault..... or yours? No, it is neither. It mearly indicates that we do not all have the same sense of humour. Similarly, I suspect we do not all perceive the emotion in Hayley's voice in the same way. Personally, I find it perfectly emotional enough. Any more would detract from the beauty of the tone, the technical ability and so on.

gareth said:

...I find this one of the best and most open discussions about any album I have ever participated in!

I think that is one thing upon which we are all agreed.

Roger

[nicola]

...I find this one of the best and most open discussions about any album I have ever participated in!

I think that is one thing upon which we are all agreed.

Is this since my review or before hand? Make me feel special I think I have exhausted everything I have to say on Odyssey. Because, like so many people have already said, it's all down to personal taste.