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Post by larryhauck on Jul 10, 2008 21:13:05 GMT
Hey Socalboy,Interesting statistics. I'm surprised. Do they cover all types of music? I much prefer the female voice. Larry
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Post by socalboy on Jul 10, 2008 21:25:36 GMT
Hi Larry:
Actually, it's Dave who compiled the statistics from Billboard, so if we're lucky he'll chime in here and give us a little more info. I'm pretty sure his stats refer only to the classical crossover category.
As for your preference for the female voice, I'm with you as are so many people I talk to about this, which makes the numbers all the more puzzling.
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Post by larryhauck on Jul 10, 2008 21:33:07 GMT
Roger,
Your'e right about the fact that Americans can't agree. The U S unlike the U K is comprised of a lot of regionalism. However, I think it's just a matter of being in the right place at the right time and be noticed by the right people. I still think Summer Fly would be a hit in the country genre. But it would take some serious efforts from Hayley's management to get it some air time.
Larry
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jul 10, 2008 21:52:25 GMT
What is perplexing is the number Dave offered up: 2 female soloists in the top 25 – I find that staggering. I’d love to know the comparable numbers (Dave?) in the UK. I believe a number of factors are at play, not the least of which is America’s macho culture, but I’m sure it’s more complicated. As I say, the real answer could provide some guidance in marketing Hayley's future. Hi Socalboy, The UK's nearest equivalent to the US Classical Crossover chart (top 25) is the Classical Album chart (top 20), but several albums eligible for the US chart are ineligible for the UK chart - one of these is Sarah Brightman's current album, which would probably be in the chart if eligible. So... All-female AlbumsIf you include Sarah's album it would be 5 albums by female soloists in the UK (Katherine Jenkins has 3) compared to 2 in the US. Hayley is not included as she appears only on Mike Oldfield's album. Including all-female groups/choirs, it is 6 in the UK and 3 in the US. All-male albumsIn the UK (measured as above) there are 7 albums by male soloists plus 7 more by all-male groups or choirs, making 14 "all male" albums. In the US, there are 10 albums by male soloists plus another 3 all-male groups/choirs so 13 all-male albums (including 2 pianists!). As you can see, female classical crossover singers are having a tough time of it in both Countries, but especially in the US. Cheers, Dave
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Post by socalboy on Jul 10, 2008 23:15:21 GMT
Thanks Dave - just the information I was looking for, though as you say it appears that female cross-over artists have a tough time catching a break on either side of the pond.
If it's something you can easily check, has this male/female imbalance been the case all along in classical/crossover, or have you observed a recent trend?
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jul 11, 2008 0:36:41 GMT
Hi Socalboy and all,
In the UK, things have been fairly even over the last 8 years or so so the present situation is hopefully temporary. In the top 100 best selling classical albums of the 21st century (2000 to 2007) there are 27 all-male singers and singing groups and 23 all-female singers or singing groups. However, there are some famous crossover groups who have been excluded from the classical chart and most of them are male (All of Il Divo's, about half of Andrea Bocelli's albums and a couple of Russell Watson's, for example).
In the US I just picked a couple of the Annual Classical crossover charts out at random.
2003: 7 of the top 15 albums (the complete chart) were by male singers, 5 were by female singers. Not a bad balance.
2007: 10 of the top 15 albums were by male singers, 1 by a female singer (Sarah Brightman at no. 12 - Hayley is at no. 17, Chloe at no. 18).
It's not scientific but on the face of it, things seem to have got much worse in the US, for female classical crossover singers. Only Sarah, Hayley and Chloe are in there, low down in the chart.
Cheers, Dave
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Post by milewalker on Jul 11, 2008 1:09:37 GMT
Hi Dave and Socialboy,
My apologies for misreading your post above Socialboy - I should know better than to post while switiching back and forth between the site and a recalcitrant spreadsheet....
I would be inclined to question drawing too many sweeping conclusions on the basis of this. The sales levels are relatively low in general - and there are relatively few stars of either gender. This means that - for example - two hot artists of the same gender might dominate the charts to the extent that they skew the numbers.
For what its worth, Sarah and Charlotte produced precisely that effect from late 1999 to early 2001. At one point I believe they combined for 5 of the top 10 positions. I have seen other times when the chart seemed to be dominated by orchestral music and soundtracks as well.
I need to emphasize that I am not discounting the idea in general...
Jon
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Post by larryhauck on Jul 11, 2008 1:22:47 GMT
Hi Jon, The management team makes the decisions, not Hayley. Perhaps a U S agency could do a better job. I think they would know the turf better.
Larry
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Post by larryhauck on Jul 11, 2008 1:28:28 GMT
Steve,
I hate to keep repeating myself; but you must shoot where the ducks are flying. Country, country, country, and country. Thats the best avenue in the U S right now.
Larry
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Post by xcv462 on Jul 11, 2008 14:08:54 GMT
Sure-fire ways for Hayley to succeed in the US, is it really necessary right now? She has a world wide fan base already. It was a real honor to be invited to our 4th of July in DC,so she must have a fan base here already. I’ve never had anyone tell me they don't love her voice and crystal clarity of it. I would love to see her have time for a real life with love and baby’s, then you would really hear her singing when she knows the love of her own child. At 21 she has all the time in the world to make it big here. I miss the chance to see her live over here but we get such good reports from all you guys, it’s like being there. She has given me so much, I want her to have all her dreams fulfilled and she has mentioned that she would like to slow down enough for a life so I hope there is no big push to get her into the US market yet, if she sky rocked to fame here she would have to do another 8 years of what she has just done all around the world. I think she has a great career going and knows what she wants. Another PBS special would be great or a visit to Oprah to get her well known here but she needs time to have a real life also. Love you Hayley and take the time to smell the roses.
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Post by milewalker on Jul 11, 2008 15:21:22 GMT
Hi RonG
If my reading is correct, Hayley is fairly well off for a 21 year old, but by no means is rich.....
There is probably no immediate need. Her current fanbase is enough to support her for at least a few more years and beyond that she can probably continue to make a living. The problem is that very few things remain static - which means that if her fanbase doesnt continue to grow in some way, it will almost certainly decline.
At some point, Hayley's contract with Decca will expire (she has two more albums). Decca may offer an extention, or she may sign elsewhere at that point - but in either case, the size of that contract will depend largely on the perception of the state of her career at the time.
I would personally be a whole lot happier with the situation if she had a larger fanbase overall - I really dont care if those fans are American or not - my focus is the US because that is the biggest largely untapped fanbase remaining. As you say, she has worked very hard - I think she would be much better off if she had more to show for it......
Jon
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Post by Tin on Jul 11, 2008 15:29:53 GMT
Hi Ron, You have my empathy. No I don't live in the US; I live in China. The situation is pretty similar- due to one reason or another (which I wouldn't specifically delineate here lest it may become too political) the China market is as intact as the US. But then, Hayley is already doing well in several regions: her career is extremely well established in her home country, and it looks to me she's doing well in the UK too. Indeed we all want to see her gain popularity in every corner of the planet but no one can force it. If there's really an instantaneous way Decca and Bedlam Management would have already used it. Don't take me wrong, I'm not saying we shouldn't help to figure out what can be done to foster Hayley's popularity, but while we squeeze our brain juice in formulating suggestions, let us also be contented with the fame the lady has already had. Of course over time I do feel it is quite regretful and sad why the fans in Asia (Japan excluded ) are seemingly neglected, a feeling shared probably by fans in the US. But then, the world is far too big and Hayley is only 21- there's still time. Even if it failed for her to expand into the US or other markets, we can still buy her CDs and watch her perform online; all these solacement should be adequate. (Please excuse me for going off track a bit by mentioning other markets!) Cheers, Tin
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Post by xcv462 on Jul 11, 2008 16:56:30 GMT
I'm quite sure Hayley will make it big in the USA and all over the world,I don't think she sings for the money but it will come. Her voice is a gift to the world and it won't go unnoticed. I'm always doing my part to bring her sound to all I meet.
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Post by jimg on Jul 11, 2008 17:47:10 GMT
Hi All,
I have read this thread with interest and have to agree with Steve Macdonald that the one song that should have been used, more than any other, to promote Hayley is Pokarekare Ana. The breakthrough song for almost any artist in any genre in any country has to be:
A strong song in its own right. New to the market. A song the artist can make their own. It needs to appeal to people who normally listen to different genre.
The Sarah Class arrangement of Pokarekare Ana was all these things and more for Hayley. I have heard four other versions since and, for me, none of them come close to Hayley's. Whilst I love Hayley's Abide With Me, perhaps because I have listened to it so many times before by others, I don't think of it as a Hayley song. To me the same thing applies to Amazing Grace. I have come to love Hayley's voice singing anthing but I am not sure that any of the other songs would have grabbed me how the few bars used to promote Pure did. If it is to late for Pokarekare Ana to have that effect in the U S A then I think to relaunch Hayley a new song will be needed. I don't think it matters whether it is 'country', 'folk', religious, or from any particular genre but I do believe it needs to fulfill at least the above four conditions.
Jim
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Post by milewalker on Jul 11, 2008 18:00:37 GMT
I'm quite sure Hayley will make it big in the USA and all over the world,I don't think she sings for the money but it will come. Her voice is a gift to the world and it won't go unnoticed. I'm always doing my part to bring her sound to all I meet. Hi Ron The issue may not be "Hayley's money" exactly - keep in mind that she must operate essentially as a small business. She produces revenue - but she also must pay expenses. One of those major expenses involves the contract with Decca itself. A month or two ago on another thread, a conversation with Hayley was mentioned about the possibility that she would perform a song in a future concert - it might have been Never Saw Blue, but my memory may be faulty. In any event her reponse to the question was to think and then say something about "it costs money" I am assuming that she was referring to a royalty she must pay to perform the song, but the point is that the fact she answered that way - and so honestly. If she has to worry about expenses like that it strongly suggests that her overall position really isnt that solid - tighter than she should be given her talent, time and effort anyway..... I could be wrong about this of course - but it does give me pause for thought. JimG - I agree wholeheartedly Jon
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