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Post by larryhauck on Jun 14, 2008 13:52:06 GMT
I wish Hayley could respond to some of the opinions voiced on the U S subject. I remember her alluding to the fact in her book that the U S is the Holy Grail for recording artists. Popularity in the U S opens many doors for artists. Recordings bring with them recognition and popularity. Touring twelve months a year can become very tiring. A lucrative recording contract would do a girl a lot of good. Perhaps Hayley would like some time to herself and be able to have a social life.
Larry
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Post by milewalker on Jun 14, 2008 16:57:41 GMT
Hi Larry and all,
In a recent interview done shortly before she went to Japan, Hayley mentioned that rhe musical taste of different countrries try to pull her in various different ways - (from memory) "there are some countries, maybe the states, which were kinda pushing me more in a pop direction, and that wasnt me". I have no way of knowing of course if she ever read this thread or not, but there are very few more succint summaries of the debate offered above which could be made.
Ironies abound here of course, because she has subsequently went on to Japan and released an album which by all descriptions so far is far more "popish" than any other she has released to this point. While that album probably wouldnt succeed here the way it stands, it does seem fair to suggest that the some aspects of the formula being followed there might have a much greater chance of success here than anything tried previously.
I do need to add that the last numbers I saw regarding her record contract were "lucrative" enough - at least it was a very substantial contract for a then teenaged crossover singer (Jenkins has limited herself primarily to the UK and has therefore done more in that market with less). Of course, the published contractual amount isnt her money at all at the end of the day.
She has been trying to find ways to take more time off for herself - and if the publications and interviews in New Zealand are any indication, one of the reasons for this is a future pursuit of a social life. It needs to be added that she has been less able to find that time for the most part than she would perhaps like to be. That is in fact one other aspect of the angst expressed above - I dont think she can maintain the pace she has set for the past several years indefinately, and the success that she has right now is predicated in part on that pace.
Socialboy - somewhere buried on this forum is a rather detailed comparison between Groban and Hayley which I wrote a while back. I will try to find it and post the link on the thread when I do. However, yes - the US markets in general, and US sexual roles and mores in particular do make it easier for a male to break through in crossover than a female, though by no means is this the only reason why he has succeeded and she has not.
Jon
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Post by chungchungxavier on Jun 15, 2008 2:36:39 GMT
I am kinda leaning towards the camp suggesting Hayley to change her style . I have come to realize that Popera / Crossover is really not very popular or well-received in the USA . The mainstream genres seem to be Pop, R&B, Rap and Country plus Folk . Gospel is popular too . Maybe Hayley can consider releasing a Country album following the footsteps and style of singers like Crystal Gayle (I heard that she is popular) .
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Post by Jenny A on Jun 15, 2008 5:19:47 GMT
Umm, no. Hayley's singing wouldn't fit a ridiculous kid's movie like that. What do Japanese songs have to do with Kung Fu, anyway? I'd just like to point out that the majority of hard-core anime fans are in their upper teen years and lower twenties. I should know because I'm kind of one of them and I've been to club meetings wow, that sounded nerdy.... I swear it's not like the Star Trek fans... I personally like the stuff that Mikuni Shimokawa did with Full Metal Panic. I could see Hayley doing something similar with an animated shoujo (romance). here's an example: (one of my fav anime song of all time) www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkgPIcHywXwthough, I kinda doubt Hayley's people would go for it... ____________________ pardon me if this has already been mentioned in a previous post, i've skimmed through the past few pages. I DID read a post a while back about Hayley appearing on Oprah or another well respected TV show and also something about having to have someone who knows Oprah recommend her. why don't those of us who support Hayley advancement in the US just go to the Oprah web site and send an email to the producers of the show. (If you do, make sure you talk about Hayley's spiritually soothing voice and the charity work she's done. I'm sure it shouldn't be hard to impress them .) I've done it. it's quick and easy. I'm sure if they get a flood of emails requesting this "Hayley person", they'd go for it. besides, if Hayley's people don't think it's for the best, they could refuse, couldn't they? <3 Jenny
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Post by Jenny A on Jun 15, 2008 5:33:59 GMT
I for one am torn. I don't know if we should be for her popularity in the US or against it. one things for sure, If she did succeed, those of you in the UK would be seeing even less of Hayley live than you are now.
also, I don't know if it's my imagination, that I'm just becoming more aware of classical-crossover music, or is there a classical revolution starting in the US? it seems that I'm meeting more and more people who are into that genre of music. I heard someone comment about Celtic Woman (it might have been on PBS) that the younger generations are starting to get sick of the "in" music and wanting more of people who know how to sing; "adult music" as they called it. If someone could find statistics on that, that would be amazing.
If I'm right, then Hayley's just what America needs.
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Post by Umbobo on Jun 15, 2008 7:16:39 GMT
I for one am torn. I don't know if we should be for her popularity in the US or against it. one things for sure, If she did succeed, those of you in the UK would be seeing even less of Hayley live than you are now. also, I don't know if it's my imagination, that I'm just becoming more aware of classical-crossover music, or is there a classical revolution starting in the US? it seems that I'm meeting more and more people who are into that genre of music. I heard someone comment about Celtic Woman (it might have been on PBS) that the younger generations are starting to get sick of the "in" music and wanting more of people who know how to sing; "adult music" as they called it. If someone could find statistics on that, that would be amazing. If I'm right, then Hayley's just what America needs. Hi Jenny, I think you are right, well im not really a Kid, 20, but i think allot of music that is produced these days is just ok, i myself as you said am leaning more towards classical music and adult contemporary, i know allot og younger kids that are they same way.
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Post by Nordly on Jun 15, 2008 11:43:32 GMT
I don't. I've mentioned Hayley (along with other popera or Celtic mucic groups) a number of times, and only one ended up liking it (not Hayley, but at least she started liking popera). Granted I'm not in the U.S., but how different is it there? I'm sure that there are some small places where popera is loved, but not many. JUst my opinion, but one of my friends is into Japanese music- that might help!
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Post by martindn on Jun 15, 2008 20:02:43 GMT
Well, Hayley is a strong minded girl, and I am sure she will never compromise her principles. So asking her to change is a no no. She tries all sorts of things to be sure, but whatever she does is spiritually uplifting and positive. She really isn't into rap and disco and all that, and she has indicated a number of times that she doesn't want to be. The thing is she will always be Hayley. You either like her or you don't. If what she does is not liked by enough people in America, I'm afraid it is their loss. I always thought of the US as a God fearing country that would love a clean living artist with real talent, but if that is not the case then don't expect Hayley to become a drug addled pop star. We should not get too concerned with articficial boundaries between genres in music, Hayley is not concered about that and neither should we be. But even if the devil has all the best tunes, don't expect Hayley to sing them.
Martin
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Post by milewalker on Jun 16, 2008 0:44:58 GMT
I always thought of the US as a God fearing country that would love a clean living artist with real talent, but if that is not the case then don't expect Hayley to become a drug addled pop star. ........ But even if the devil has all the best tunes, don't expect Hayley to sing them. Martin Hi Martin I always thought of the UK as a God fearing people who would appreciate real talent, but if that is not the case then dont expect Josh Groban to become a drug addled pop star. ------------- There are lots of "God fearing" people living all over America, and for the most part they dont like Hayley either - if they ever even heard of her. They prefer "clean living" singers like Carrie Underwood, or Josh Groban, or Miley Cyrus, or Faith Hill or Andrea Bocelli, or Reba McIntyre - all of whom have had one or more very successful releases here since Hayley has been trying. I strongly suspect that you would find very few places in the Western world as hostile to classical music in general as the so-called American "bible belt". Outside of possibly New England, we simply dont have the same love as Europe does for traditional music. It simply never took root here because we were busy separating ourselves from Eurpopean culture during the time when much of it was happening. The exception to this is sacred music - which btw weakens your argument considerably Hayley is boring to Americans (or to the people responsible for making market choices here - which amounts to much the same result in the end) not because of her so-called "clean living" - but because she is a straight "Stand up and Sing" type of performer for the most part. As a general rule, this is a disadvantage here unless you have been doing it for a very long time. In general, we like things on a grander scale than this - which is why Celtic Woman is much bigger than the sum of its individual members could ever be. Collectively, they provide a show rather than a concert. Groban and Brightman figured this out as well. In conclusion, I dont think that the moral values of America compared to other countries have anything to do with the issue -and I very strongly doubt the other thing you seem to be saying, that some forms of music are more morally pure than others. Jon
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Post by Libby on Jun 16, 2008 2:33:29 GMT
Really? I suppose you don't like "Here Beside Me" from Mulan 2 either. I don't mean all kids' animated movies are ridiculous, I just think that one is (nothing in the previews makes me want to go see it). There's a huge difference between "Kung Fu Panda" and "Mulan II". "Mulan" is more like the traditional animated Disney fairytales. Hayley's singing usually doesn't go with silly comedies. I have never seen Mulan II, (although I did see the first one) and I've never heard "Here Beside Me". I'm sure it's a lovely song.
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Post by Libby on Jun 16, 2008 2:40:36 GMT
How popular are CW in comparison to major pop artists? I'm not sure who is big in that field in the US at the moment, but do artists like say Streisand or Madonna sell more than CW? If so, I suspect quality pop will outsell celtic music. Of course Madonna and Barbara Streisand sell more here, because they have been around much longer. Celtic Woman is a fairly new group, and it's not like their songs are on the radio. I was just dispelling someone's assumption that Americans don't like Celtic/Irish music. Hello, many of us have Irish roots, so why wouldn't we? So, I was saying that, if that is true, why are CW popular here? Okay, so they are not as popular as pop aritsts here, but they apparently they are popular enough to do a big tour here, but not in the UK!
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Post by Libby on Jun 16, 2008 2:54:38 GMT
why don't those of us who support Hayley advancement in the US just go to the Oprah web site and send an email to the producers of the show. (If you do, make sure you talk about Hayley's spiritually soothing voice and the charity work she's done. I'm sure it shouldn't be hard to impress them .) I've done it. it's quick and easy. I'm sure if they get a flood of emails requesting this "Hayley person", they'd go for it. besides, if Hayley's people don't think it's for the best, they could refuse, couldn't they? I did this quite some time ago. But maybe I will try again. Hayley did say something about going back to Ghana, so maybe when the trip becomes more definite, or after it, they'd be interested in interviewing her about it. Oprah herself has charity programs in Africa, so I think this would really interest her, particularly because Hayley's charity supports young African girls and women.
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Post by milewalker on Jun 16, 2008 17:37:46 GMT
How popular are CW in comparison to major pop artists? I'm not sure who is big in that field in the US at the moment, but do artists like say Streisand or Madonna sell more than CW? If so, I suspect quality pop will outsell celtic music. Of course Madonna and Barbara Streisand sell more here, because they have been around much longer. Celtic Woman is a fairly new group, and it's not like their songs are on the radio. I was just dispelling someone's assumption that Americans don't like Celtic/Irish music. Hello, many of us have Irish roots, so why wouldn't we? So, I was saying that, if that is true, why are CW popular here? Okay, so they are not as popular as pop aritsts here, but they apparently they are popular enough to do a big tour here, but not in the UK! Hi Libby I dont think the point is so much that Americans dont like Celtic music per se - or some other kinds of music which may be relevant - but that it is difficult to sustain a solo career here doing that alone. There is enough interest to allow a Celtically themed show to do quite well - and for the products associated with the show to do well. Celtic Woman does much better in the US than any of the individuals there would as soloists, in large part because Americans like a show. The show is also varied and visually interesting enough to support successful PBS productions as well as DVD's This being said, musical tastes do tend to be somewhat cyclical, and I suspect that there was a period of time - say from around 1985 until 2000 when there was just a little more interest in soft/ Celtic music than there is now. One of the performers of that genre was Enya, and her timing was such that she was able to capitalize on a brief moment in the market, and thus become a "legacy" star - she made enough fans to have a chart presence here (though fading now) for some period of time after the moment had passed its peak. Lorena McKennitt achieved much the same thing on a lower level. To put this another way, Celtic Treasure did fairly well here if the standard is the general performance of Celtic music in America at the present time. No Celtic themed soloist whose name isnt Enya has broken the Billboard top 20 this century Jon
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Post by martindn on Jun 16, 2008 20:16:51 GMT
Hi Jon and Libby,
I was not trying to imply that there is any moral superiority in the UK or US, simply that celebs who behave badly get more publicity, and "there is no such thing as bad publicity". This happens over here as well. But yes, I take the point about cultural differences. I think sport is an example of this. American spectator sportslike baseball and American Football are fast moving, and the matches are surrounded by entertainment. The people who attend the game expect a show. In the UK, the nature of the games played is more restrained, for example cricket and soccer, and except for international matches there is not much else except the actual game. I can imagine that many Americans would be bored by that, despite the players exhibiting high levels of skill and endeavour. Over here I can imagine the comments if sports events had American style razzamatazz, (I came to see a cricket match, not a circus). So yes, I suppose you are right. I tend to be old fashioned too, in that I listen to music with my ears, not my eyes, in fact I often close my eyes at classical concerts (but not Hayley's, you need to see the expressions on her face). I'm not sure how one could increase Hayley's appeal in the US in view of this cultural difference. Hayley is a singer, she makes beautiful music. If that''s what you expect when you go to see her, you will not be disappointed. If you expect more than that, you might be. Over here, in England at least, Celtic music is a non-starter. This is a pity, I enjoy it myself, but judging from the turnout that we got when Anuna came to my local concert hall, and the comments from some members of the group that "we probably won't come here again", and the fact that CW's New Journey sank here without trace when it was eventually released, despite Hayley being on it, this kind of music is not popular.
Martin
Martin
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Post by larryhauck on Jun 17, 2008 2:39:52 GMT
Wow! South Pacific is back on Broadway. Now all we need is Hayley in a revival of the Sound Of Music.
Larry
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