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Post by larryhauck on Jun 17, 2008 13:14:18 GMT
Hi Jon, I think that given the size of th U S it would be necessary for Hayley to identify her target audience. I have attended four of Hayley's concerts in the U K and I find that the audiences tend to be of the more mature age group. In this country we are starved for artists that appeal to older people i.e. forty and older.Our population is laden with mature adults that appreciate good artists. Hayley has indicated many times that she would like to sing with Barbara Streisand. We love Barbara but she rarely performs live anymore. I think Hayley could fill that void. I wish Hayley's managers would implore Barbara to appear with Hayley here in the U S. I think it be a boon to Hayley's career here. Also, she would not have to compromise any of her principles. An recording together with Babs would be too much to hope for. Celine Dion could also be helpful. I wish these artists would help Hayley as others have helped them. As I have said before an album of old standards would be great. Look how successful Linda Rondstadt and Rod Stewart were doing this.
Larry
Larry
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Post by Richard on Jun 17, 2008 13:30:19 GMT
Hello Larry! I've seen the price of tickets for Barbra Streisand's concerts. Il Divo's fans were very upset when they supported her because they couldn't afford to go, and I think Hayley's fans would be even more upset! Richard
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Post by roger on Jun 17, 2008 14:10:51 GMT
Very true Richard but I think Larry's suggestion was to increase Hayley's profile in the US rather than to satisfy her existing fans. Nevertheless, what you say would cause significant frustration and disappointment and that certainly wouldn't help Hayley. I feel sure that appearing with Barbra, Celine or any other established performer would indeed help Hayley enormously and I feel sure she would love to do it. But what is in it for Barbra and Celine? Sure, they would earn a fortune from the event but they can do that anyway without Hayley. For that reason, I imagine Hayley's management inploring them to do it would prove fruitless. Roger
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Post by stuartj on Jun 17, 2008 23:02:26 GMT
Some may find it strange, but I don't see Hayley as genuinely "popera". This is why Dame Kiri's going on about her was so odd. Hayley is and always has been primarily in what used to be known as the "easy Listening" genre. Traditional and folk ballads are her most popular songs, it seems. She has done very few arias and core classical material.
The two singers her repetoire most resembles are the Norwegian singer Sissel, who was supposed to be very much like Hayley when she was younger, and Nana Mouskouri.
Like those two, Hayley can branch out a bit in all directions (Mouskouri has sung a number of arias) but I don't see why there is the talk of musicals.
She has to be true to her nature and makeup. Mick Jagger, the way he looked and sounded (I am not knocking him either, my musical tastes are ecletic!) had to be a rock singer.
Hayley shouldn't attempt to go too far popish, it is just not her. There are plenty of easy listening classics that she hasn't done which could be the core of her future repetoire - "Down by the Selly Gardens", The Wild Highland Thyme, etc. She could also throw in a little bit of bolder stuff. I'm disappointed no one responded to my suggestion about Leonard Cohen's "Suzanne" or Bob Dylan's "Forever Young". And I don't believe she'd be compromising herself if she sang something like "Help Me Make it Through the Night" or "The Ballad of Lucy Jordan". These are not "uplifting songs" but sadness and broken dreams are very much a part of life, even most of our lives and a rounded artist should touch on them, I think. She neededn't make such songs a major part of her reportoire, but they could prevent her being seen as the "Empress of the Banal". (I think she is the Empress of Easy Listening" - mind, some would say it is the same thing).
I don't think there should be any radical change to her core style -- no change at all really, but simply that she could add to it some harsher or less bloodless material... I believe she could do an excellent version of that song Luke Kelly and Sinead O'Conner have done - "The Foggy Due", about the Irish uprising in 1916.
But she isn't essentially a pop singer of the sort that will be No. 1 often on the pop charts and I don't think we should expect that... ?
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Post by milewalker on Jun 18, 2008 1:21:43 GMT
Hello all,
StuartJ - one reason for this is because of the topic of this threads - those things which might make Hayley have more success in the US. How long has Sissell been around? She surprised everyone by exceeding 100,000 sales in America with a 2002 release. It only took her roughly 20 years to reach that level.
I for one have never expected Hayley to be number 1 on Billboard. Having said this, Josh Groban has done it twice (he is male and American of course) - more to the point, Sarah Brightman has come in as high as number 15 or so back in the day.
I am always bemused by the various ways different people classify her. In a sense, I agree with StuartJ above, and I have posted as much a time or two that Hayley's natural niche is about one step on the pop side of the line between pop and classical. However, that line drifts in place over time, because the definition of neither pop or classical has remained static. I dont think Hayley is really "popera" either - except that the word itself is a media derivitive for classical crossover, and the type of music he is calling "Easy Listening" is increasingly viewed as "classical-lite".
Howard - One problem I have with some of these comparisons between Hayley/Sissell, or Hayley/Streisand is simply that these are artists of the past to an extent. They picked up a huge fan base decades ago - and survive to the present day largely because their original fanbases were so large that they can still make it with much less. If I have 10 million fans at my peak, I still have 2 million even if I lose 80 percent of my base. In order for a newcomer to break into the same market in the same way, the market itself must remain similar enough. I strongly suspect that Streisand, were she to debut in 2004, would have a great deal of difficultly becoming Streisand - if you take my meaning. A similar problem occurs with the idea of a pop standard album. Rod Stewart or Barry Manilow can be successful doing this in large part because they are household names already.
In point of fact, a very great effort was made initially to target Hayley's audience here. What do Good Morning America, PBS Great Performances, CBSSunday, and the Hour of Power have in common? They all have a primary demographic just like the one you mention.
Roger - you are absolutely correct of course. This is very similar to the problem with the proposed duets. There has to be something in it for the other party, and Hayley doesnt really have that much to offer.
Jon
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Post by larryhauck on Jun 18, 2008 1:44:32 GMT
Hi Richard,
Well I come to the U K to see Hayley and thats more than a single ticket to a concert. Although I get your point. Are the tickets for Limerick on sale yet? Are many of you going to Limerick and Dublin? I can get good tickets in Dublin but I can't find out anything about Limerick. I don't want to come all the way from the states if I can't see both concerts. If you can find out about Limerick let me know.
Thank You Larry
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Post by Richard on Jun 18, 2008 7:40:06 GMT
Hello Larry! Information about Hayley's concert in Limerick is available HERE. Click on the first link for full details. Richard
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Post by stuartj on Jun 18, 2008 13:50:48 GMT
Hello all, StuartJ - one reason for this is because of the topic of this threads - those things which might make Hayley have more success in the US. How long has Sissell been around? She surprised everyone by exceeding 100,000 sales in America with a 2002 release. It only took her roughly 20 years to reach that level. I for one have never expected Hayley to be number 1 on Billboard. Having said this, Josh Groban has done it twice (he is male and American of course) - more to the point, Sarah Brightman has come in as high as number 15 or so back in the day. I am always bemused by the various ways different people classify her. In a sense, I agree with StuartJ above, and I have posted as much a time or two that Hayley's natural niche is about one step on the pop side of the line between pop and classical. However, that line drifts in place over time, because the definition of neither pop or classical has remained static. I dont think Hayley is really "popera" either - except that the word itself is a media derivitive for classical crossover, and the type of music he is calling "Easy Listening" is increasingly viewed as "classical-lite". Howard - One problem I have with some of these comparisons between Hayley/Sissell, or Hayley/Streisand is simply that these are artists of the past to an extent. They picked up a huge fan base decades ago - and survive to the present day largely because their original fanbases were so large that they can still make it with much less. If I have 10 million fans at my peak, I still have 2 million even if I lose 80 percent of my base. In order for a newcomer to break into the same market in the same way, the market itself must remain similar enough. I strongly suspect that Streisand, were she to debut in 2004, would have a great deal of difficultly becoming Streisand - if you take my meaning. A similar problem occurs with the idea of a pop standard album. Rod Stewart or Barry Manilow can be successful doing this in large part because they are household names already. In point of fact, a very great effort was made initially to target Hayley's audience here. What do Good Morning America, PBS Great Performances, CBSSunday, and the Hour of Power have in common? They all have a primary demographic just like the one you mention. Roger - you are absolutely correct of course. This is very similar to the problem with the proposed duets. There has to be something in it for the other party, and Hayley doesnt really have that much to offer. Jon Oh, yes, it is very true that the definitions of pop and classical haven't remained static. I realise that they are used as synonyms by many people, but I am making a distinction between "popera" and "crossover". A "crossover" singer is one whose main genre is genre A but ventures occasionally into genre B. A "popera" singer is one who sings opera songs in a largely operatic style. Paul Potts, Kathy Jenkins, and Il Divo are "popera". Bryn Terfel is crossover, Hayley is classical-crossover, Sissel is certainly not "popera" either. And yes, the "easy-listening" genre as it used to be known has recently been included under "classical" by Decca. This is what has caused a lot of the controversy. I agree it is increasingly being called "classical-lite" and that is a better term, I think.
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Post by stevemacdonald on Jun 18, 2008 17:16:49 GMT
...Hayley shouldn't attempt to go too far popish, it is just not her. ... But it is her! Let's face it, she was nothing short of amazing with "Groovy Kind of Love" which is as popish as it gets. Bottom line is: Hayley's versatility as a singer makes a mockery of our shoulds and shouldn'ts.
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Post by Jenny A on Jun 18, 2008 20:31:09 GMT
well, I don't know how much it will do in spreading Hayley awareness but i've successfully convinced my public library to purchase a few of her CDs.
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Post by roger on Jun 18, 2008 20:39:43 GMT
Well done, Jenny. That sounds like a really good idea and much more realistic than trying to persuade established artists to invite Hayley to go on tour with them. It only takes a handful of people to borrow those CDs and the word should begin to spread. If more people do as you have done, it just might begin to make a difference.
Roger
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Post by Nordly on Jun 18, 2008 21:35:41 GMT
Having librarys own her CDs would help. Both the Celtic Thunder CD and the Celtic Woman Christmas CD are owned by my library, as is Sissel's 'Into Paradise,' and any/all of Hayley's albums would be a great addition to their collection. I think that may be the way to North American fame! Lets go for it!
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Post by grant on Jun 18, 2008 22:33:43 GMT
well, I don't know how much it will do in spreading Hayley awareness but i've successfully convinced my public library to purchase a few of her CDs. What a great idea Jenny!! As Roger said, a realistic suggestion and it does only take a few people to start the ball rolling with more an more people finding out about Hayley as it gathers momentum! Best wishes Grant
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Post by larryhauck on Jun 18, 2008 23:36:06 GMT
Roger, Great minds think alike. I had my library get a copy of Pure for me. They did have the Celtic Woman CD though.
Larry
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Post by milewalker on Jun 19, 2008 0:29:20 GMT
Hello all,
I support any idea to get Hayley more exposure....but having said this I have to wonder. Despite the fact that most libraries in the US have a fairly extensive collection of classical material on hand, this has, insofar as I can tell, done very little to promote classical music in general. Why would Hayley would fare any better than Haydn?
Steve - my impression of Hayley in general does indeed stem from my early experiences with her music as well, so to an extent I agree with you. However, I think that Stuart may have had something other than a song like "A Groovy Kind of Love" when he said that Hayley shouldnt go "too popish" It is soft Phil Collins originally, which places it firmly within the sub-genre we call easy-listening - which means you are both right as far as it goes. A better example for your argument might have been something like Wuthering Heights or Summer Fly.
Whether easy listening is pop or classical depends entirely on who is doing the defining. In fact, in the US at least, this is actually already extending into other types of music as well.
Josh Groban did a well received soft-rock cover of Linkin Park's "My December" recently. I wonder what was going through Hayley's mind when she saw him perform '"February Song" at the Classical Brits?
One thing that could really complicate matters is the old saw about the US and UK being separated by a common language. Given the fact that Hayley does well in the UK and not so well here, and Josh is exactly opposite, I think this begs the question....When we talk about classical crossover, do we really mean the same thing??
Jon
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