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Post by roger on Nov 16, 2006 10:38:13 GMT
Quoted from the Telford thread... Of course it's up to Hayley where she goes but am I alone in feeling surprised that an artist who can sell out the Albert Hall (or Carnegie Hall for that matter) chooses to perform to 400 lucky people in a church ? Surely a concert hall would be more comfortable, for artist and audience ?! Hi Jeff, No, you are not alone in thinking that. It amazes me that Hayley had a sell-out tour in March 2004 (the Pure Tour) in traditional concert venues, each with an average capacity of around 2,000 yes, since then, the great majority of her UK concerts have been in churches which accomodate, perhaps 400 or so. Sure, those *intimate* events are nice for those who are fortunate enough to obtain tickets but, for me, they are far from ideal. I have been to six of her concerts in churches, abbeys and cathedrals and on two of those occasions, the sound system failed miserably. The venues are cold (as they are nearly always in the winter months), very uncomfortable for a two-hour concert, the lighting is hopelessly inadequate, and there is little or no facilities for refreshments in the interval. Of the six, the only one that came anywhere near up to standard was Banbury. I feel strongly that Hayley deserves better than this, and so do her fans. Your comments are welcome, folks! Roger |
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Post by grant on Nov 16, 2006 11:46:47 GMT
I remember reading somewhere that Hayley enjoys performing in small intimate venues as well as large concert halls with a big orchestra, so it wouldn't appear to be something she prefers to do or not to do.
It is, however, significant that many of Hayley's concerts are advertised at relatively short notice (Telford is a case in point) whereas many artists advertise their tours months in advance.
This maybe management led or it maybe down to not wanting to plan Hayleys appearances too far into the future. Anything being planned at relatively short notice will not be able to use major concert venues as they are likely to be booked up well in advance.
Personally, I like church concerts and, whilst I agree with Roger about the cold and the comfort (I thought Canterbury had the most uncomfortable seats!) Being close makes up for the sound problems occassionally encountered.
Maybe I'll feel differently about that when I've been to as many Hayley concerts as you have Roger!!
Grant
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Post by Mark on Nov 16, 2006 12:29:31 GMT
Hi Roger, Grant & Jeff
I do know what you are saying Jeff and I agree Roger that churches are not the best venues for all the reasons you mention. I would also say that Banbury is the only church venue I have been to so far !. However, I must say that If Hayley had not chosen to perform at St Mary's in Banbury, I am almost positive that I would not be a Hayley fan today. Before that performance, I had heard of Hayley, but didnt really know who she was or anything about her. The concert was advertised locally and as I live just a few minutes drive from the church, I thought it sounded the sort of thing that I may enjoy. Obviously, once I had heard Hayley sing and then after meeting her, like most of us, I was hooked and have been an avid fan ever since.
My point is, that by putting herself out occaisionally in these small unknown venues, I am sure she reaches many potential fans, who wouldn't otherwise know her enough to want to travel a good distance to a big expensive venue. Certainly, that is how she hooked me !!
Anyone else feel the same way ?
Best regards
Mark.
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Martin
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HWI Management Team
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Post by Martin on Nov 16, 2006 12:33:10 GMT
Hi Roger & Grant I agree with your comments but I still find this booking a bit of a mystery. I would have thought that it wasn't Hayley's management company that sought this booking but rather that the Church sought out Hayley. Also, with a maximum income from the concert of £7000 (400 x £17.50) covering both Hayley's fees and the Church's expected costs and profit then surely Hayley isn't doing it for the money! As Grant pointed out, Hayley does seem to enjoy the small venue occasionally so perhaps this was simply that - the Church approached her and she said "yes". Best Wishes Martin  |
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Post by Richard on Nov 16, 2006 14:54:57 GMT
Hello everybody!  I enjoyed Hayley's concerts at St. James's Church in Piccadilly, St. Mary's Church in Banbury and Canterbury Cathedral, because the settings seems to suit Hayley's style of music. However, I really prefer the larger concert venues, such as the London Palladium and the Cliffs Pavillion in Southend. Generally the sound is better and the larger venues have much better facilities. Also smaller venues can be remote from Town Centres. Best Wishes, Richard  |
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Post by postscript on Nov 16, 2006 16:52:24 GMT
Hi folks!
An interesting and varied range of replies so far and does that not sum up Hayley? Diverse, disciplined, single-minded in terms of her art and desire to deliver perfection in detail while appealing across genres, backgrounds, locations.
There is the spiritual aspect from her personal enjoyment, a sense of giving again, supporting the 'under' dog. There is her own fascination with the ancient, many of these institutions date back several centuries--not so in New Zealand.
There is a greater informality and therefore camaraderie, making it more Hayley WITH audience rather than Hayley BEFORE an audience. There is a community aspect and I don't recall a church/abbey attendance where she has not been available for a long signing session. Churches are usually not so anxious to throw people out because they are unpaid volunteers equally fascinated in having her around, rather than paid 'doing the job' people wanting to go home.
Church goers, both regulars and those only occasionally attending but holding an affinity are not necessarily theatre goers, so a more casual, local, arguably different type of audience.
My only dislike of church venues is the 'first-come-first-served' basis for seating. Queuing for two hours beforehand sans bar (of what ever type of refreshment) is a chore on a bitterly cold night and mucks up the dining arrangements. But then, I HAVE and do queue like that...!
However, here is an aside from a reliable source. In 2005 a promotion company had a brief to make certain arrangements.. which they did not do properly, hence the smaller rather than larger options because 'that was all that was available' by the time her immediate management discovered the situation. It wasn't intended.
There is another aspect, to do with Hayley herself and here, once again as is my wont, I jump in with all six feet flailing!
Hayley might well be thought of as a 'simple' person. 'Simple' in the sense of straight forward, upfront, totally natural. But that is to look solely at the surface. That surface is NOT a facade. It is just that, the outermost surface. Underneath is a very complex personality.
There is an aspect of her that is into long-term planning. That will be pacing her CDs BUT, perhaps more importantly, pacing her voice in parallel with the maturity of her body.
in my 'The Other Kiwi' thread, I observed that the evening was shared between two mature, well established women. Hayley will not rush that moment when, as I think we all hope and believe ultimately she will, discard the microphone, though perhaps only in certain environments and they may or may not be churches. While churches can play havoc with electronic enhancement, they can be superb for the NATURAL choral voice!
In these aspects, Hayley is a long-term player and will not be rushed. However, there is another aspect of Hayley which one might call 'will-o'-the-wisp'. This is the 'other' Hayley who, like the butterfly, senses the delicate shift of the breeze and allows herself to be wafted along with that particular emotion before lighting upon a new flower and seeing the world's aspect from her new vantage point. This is the short-term Hayley. Both are one and the same Hayley!
It may be professional advice that does not tie herself down too far ahead. Even if so, I think here is a Hayley aspect of personal preference that likes to respond 'to the moment'!
A self-disciplined young woman she is but she is still only nineteen and has been a dedicated professional since at least 15. I think there is a certain skittishness about her that says, 'lets have a bit of fun'! In these short-term quick fixtures, she is allowing herself a little time to play.
Peter S
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Martin
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HWI Management Team
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Post by Martin on Nov 16, 2006 20:36:49 GMT
A very interesting read Peter which all adds up to one more very important aspect of Hayley - she is unique. And let's all be grateful for that quality in this celebrity mad world of entertainment.
I wholeheartedly agree that she would see this type of intimate concert and venue as "a bit of fun" but at the same time knowing that it allows her to establish a close relationship and rapport with the audience which is difficult in larger concert arenas.
Bert wishes
Martin
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Post by Belinda on Nov 16, 2006 22:52:24 GMT
Hi all, I'd say i would love to hear Hayley sing in a church in Christchurch sound problems and all . i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif  Maybe when she comes home at Christmas she may like to do a one off concert in the church Yulia has just performed in. I'm sure Ian and Fiona could be tracked down, they are some where in NZ Belinda Nz. |
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Post by postscript on Nov 17, 2006 18:33:29 GMT
A very interesting read Peter which all adds up to one more very important aspect of Hayley - she is unique. And let's all be grateful for that quality in this celebrity mad world of entertainment. Bert wishes Martin Thank you for that Martin. A most reassuring post after Honest Dave's transparency that he only skimmed... or skipped. Now why don't we have a smiley with a skipping rope ooops, sorry, off topic! Peter S.  |
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Post by nealwsyrette on Nov 17, 2006 19:42:24 GMT
LOL I feel this represents a truer test for an artist. One should ask themselves "What exactly are these people taking home with them from this building?" Can she appease their cold hands, uneasiness and thirst with nothing more than the carrying sound of her voice...I tend to think she can... Hayley does an "admiral" job of sailing smoothly through her tasks, while still giving enough leeway to sweep out to the common man/woman cast adrift... |
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Post by postscript on Nov 19, 2006 13:56:16 GMT
LOL I feel this represents a truer test for an artist. One should ask themselves "What exactly are these people taking home with them from this building?" Can she appease their cold hands, uneasiness and thirst with nothing more than the carrying sound of her voice...I tend to think she can... Hayley does an "admiral" job of sailing smoothly through her tasks, while still giving enough leeway to sweep out to the common man/woman cast adrift... Very intersting observation. I recall the original post but not from whom. Regardless, a very shrewd observation Neal. Why was whomsoever there six times?! Clearly for Hayley and they will not let anything get in their way of enjoying a Hayley performance what ever the difficulties and discomforts! Peter S, |
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Post by Richard on Nov 19, 2006 14:59:18 GMT
Hello Peter! To save you from a lot of searching and head-scratching, the post quoted by Neal is the opening post of this thread, made by Roger!  Best Wishes, Richard  |
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Post by fusilier23 on Nov 19, 2006 16:53:55 GMT
Hmmm. Hayley should do some concerts in churches here in the US. Although none go back as far as the medieval European churches, there are plenty with some history, i.e. Boston's Old North Church and Trinity Church, New Orleans' Cathedral of St. Louis (the oldest continually used cathedral in North America), and Savannah's Cathedral of John the Baptist (which is VERY European in appearance), not to mention the Welsh-style churches that sprang up in the slate district of eastern PA. There are also plenty with atmosphere, like NYC's St. Patrick's Cathedral and Newark's Basilica of the Sacred Heart and St. James AME.
What is more, almost all North American churches are adequately heated and lighted and most (but not all) have strong volunteer organizations attached who would be more than willing to take care of refreshments, not of the alcoholic variety, but in some cases of the home-baked variety (munch munch).
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Post by postscript on Nov 20, 2006 10:25:41 GMT
Hmmm. Hayley should do some concerts in churches here in the US. Although none go back as far as the medieval European churches, there are plenty with some history, i.e. Boston's Old North Church and Trinity Church, New Orleans' Cathedral of St. Louis (the oldest continually used cathedral in North America), and Savannah's Cathedral of John the Baptist (which is VERY European in appearance), not to mention the Welsh-style churches that sprang up in the slate district of eastern PA. There are also plenty with atmosphere, like NYC's St. Patrick's Cathedral and Newark's Basilica of the Sacred Heart and St. James AME. What is more, almost all North American churches are adequately heated and lighted and most (but not all) have strong volunteer organizations attached who would be more than willing to take care of refreshments, not of the alcoholic variety, but in some cases of the home-baked variety (munch munch). A superb suggestion Fusilier. Several (no, one or two) of those churches you mentioned I am personally familiar with, so I can agree with you on the specifics as well as the principle..In Boston, the Trinity church, is that the one in Copplestone Square? Peter S. |
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Post by Jeff on Nov 21, 2006 10:10:22 GMT
"Frugal" is a word Hayley has used to describe her upbringing and she once said she was "basically a jeans and sneakers kind of girl." It strikes me that a young lady who doesn't spend lavishly probably isn't worried about earning a huge amount of money. Of course she's a high earner compared to you or me, but not compared to Madonna or Kylie. She's probably quite content with the revenue she gets from church concerts and album royalties. Looking at the photos from Alfred Salter School made me think that eventually she may become a music teacher or work with children with special needs since she clearly loves kids.
As Peter alluded to, she may have encountered problems with some theatres in the past. I remember a conversation I had with the manager of the Anvil in Basingstoke 2 years ago. He had taken out a full page advert in the Classic FM magazine for a Hayley concert only to find she never confirmed the booking. I don't know the whys and wherefores of the negotiations and he may have "jumped the gun" but the upshot was he was left with a hefty advertising bill and an empty theatre. Admin costs such as advertising and promotion are normally taken from the artist's fee. Clearly not happy, I don't think he will try and book her again which is a pity because Basingstoke is a very reachable location in Southern England.
In any case, although on the face of it large scale tours provide greater revenue for the artist, there are also greater costs involved, especially if an orchestra has to be employed. Many years ago I worked for a travel company and we had the contract to provide transport and accommodation to the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra when they were on tour. I was staggered at the costs involved in moving a bunch of musicians and their instruments around the country and abroad, especially as the musicians' union had stipulated that a minimum of 4 star accommodation had to be provided in all cases.
Once, after a concert during the Pure Tour of 2004, I was waiting outside the theatre and what struck me was the sheer number of people required as what seemed like an army of stagehands carried lighting gantries, scenery and other equipment out of the stage door. Everything was labelled with Hayley's name since it all had to be loaded onto a lorry and transported to the next venue. Such costs have to be met by the artist not the theatre. In fact it is not uncommon for the performer to be left with around 15% of the revenue after all expenses for transport, hotels, promotion, other musicians etc are taken into consideration. So for a 2000 seat theatre at £25 a seat, the initial revenue may be £50,000 but the artist could be left with around £7,500, rather a similar figure to the one already mentioned by Martin for a 400 seat church !
So, next time you are sat on a hard wooden pew in a cold and draughty church, straining to hear an inadequate sound system, reflect on the fact that Hayley is an extremely shrewd young lady who knows exactly what she is doing, even if some of us don't !
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