Dame Kiri puts Hayley out in the cold - NZ Herald

[timj]

Well any Press is good Press, I think Hayley responded very kindly....TimJ

[petertong]

You know the thing of it is that Hayley is still young... and the Dame has no way of knowing where Hayley will be 30 years from now in terms of her development... so why she would bother commenting on Hayley at all unless its positive? It really is a bit beyond me... it also makes her look like a horse's hind end really

[Richard]

Hello folks!

I'm sure it's only a matter of time before Hayley gets mentioned in the Queen's Birthday or the New Year Honours List. What will Dame Motormouth say then?

Richard

[Mr Yang]

Yes it will be the best answer to Dame's comment.

[postscript]

dori said:

Hello all,

Thought you all might like to see the scan of the front page of our morning paper. My mom made a good point - look at the differences in the photos, where they want to make Hayley look 'silly', and Kiri look 'prestigous'. Quite shocking - and rude, but here we are....



Don't you agree?

Dori

EDIT: I reduced the size of the scan because it was too large. Thanks - Stephany

You can interpret those looks in different ways Dori. To me, Hayley shows as a fun girl good for a laugh while Kiri comes over as a right old sour puss. No fun at all.
Peter S.

[postscript]

Hi everyone.

Richard and Grant kindly posted their interest in hearing my views on this issue. Grant recalled my earlier post on an evening’s concert with Kiri in Cadogan Hall, where Hayley has so frequently sung herself and I guess it was having that vaguely in mind that prompted Richard to express his interest?.

I have now read the whole thread [to 4:00 pm GMT] and I notice certain similarities. This similarity of posting leads me to an interesting suggestion on which subject I would be glad to hear some Kiwi opinion. Possibly, how ever, my thoughts are not valid after all as I have just discovered that the Kiri concert at the Domain was free, as well as being on an earlier night from Hayley.. That being the case, doubtless there will be some enticement to donate as it is a charity event but for that reason perhaps has not been promoted as well as it might have been? Could all this be why Kiri went out on a limb? She was worried about a poor turn-out for her?

We need some details and reluctantly it is probably too late now to pin down the facts and with a ‘free’ entry it is not possible to check theatre ticket success.

Let me quote the replies that have caught my attention.

Dori post 63.
Well, I think Kiri has been to shame more than she can bear. I mean, this is a national embarrassment, and I am so happy with the reactions she has been getting from the country. I bet more people will be at her concert tonight, because of this.

Well, will more attend or will people be furious for running down her country and fellow Kiwis? Counter-argument 'no publicity is bad publicity' and people then have a chance (presumably having pre-committed themselves to tickets for Hayley) turn up as its free to make their own comparison?

Stuart j 81. You cannot compare two incomparables! One has just run down her country and fellow kiwis, the other is all politeness and good manners.

There is an old adage in teaching that if you would teach it is by your pupils you will be taught. Clearly Hayley has much to teach Dame Kiri in manners, decorum and public conduct. Unfortunately no one has told Kiri where her ears are!

83, Dave, your quotation ‘Hayley’s not in my world’. I am not aware anyone said Hayley was, least of all Hayley.

Precisely. Only Kiri said that. She answered her own question which no one had ever asked her. This does raise the question, ‘Why is she suddenly in need of publicity—she’s not selling out? Unlike Hayley, who at last year’s Llangollen Eisteddfod not only sold out 4,000 seats ahead of Baez and Carreras but created such a demand they brought in tv screens for an extra 1,000 to view outside the stadium. When did Dame Kiri last do that? Does, under canvas, count as outdoors? So Kiri would have used a microphone just as Hayley did?

Stevemacdonald Kiri's too much of a veteran not to know how her interview would look in print. I see her as stirring us all up maybe just for fun, like skeet shooting -- her big hobby.

No, she created the platform for free publicity for what she feared would be a dead-end show by asking herself a question no one had bothered to ask and providing her own answer. Pure publicity because her show was going to look like a poor audience turn-out.

The whole thing is the very faking of which she accuses, despite the fact Hayley has never faked anything. The answer to all of this is the timing. Why else now, not at any other time would she say what she did?
After all, Kiri is supposedly a trained singer and therefore KNOWS that Hayley’s voice will continue to develop for at least another seven to eight years. More particularly, Hayley herself has stated quite clearly that she hasn’t a clue where she is going. She wants to fit in marriage, when the right time arrives and she will always want to sing but she has never stated in what manner to what audiences and in what way. She is still finding her OWN way.

There is but one conclusion, the whole thing is a very badly organised publicity stunt that I hope in time Kiri will realise was one huge mistake. The lady is panicking and so is her management.

Peter S.

[Mr Yang]

Very good summery Peter. I agree that "She wants to fit in marriage, when the right time arrives and she will always want to sing but she has never stated in what manner to what audiences and in what way. She is still finding her OWN way."

[James]

Here's another article from Stuff.co.NZ:

NZStuff - Hayley Sings Sweetly

Hayley sings sweetly over Kiri's off-key comments



Hayley Westenra is content to let her singing do the talking and has refused to be drawn into a spat with opera legend Dame Kiri Te Kanawa.


Te Kanawa slammed Westenra at the weekend, saying she was not in her world and never would be. Westenra and her fellow popera singers were fakes for the new generation who could only perform with a microphone and had no formal training, Te Kanawa said.

She later defended her comments, saying they had been taken out of context and that she had not meant it as a direct attack on the quality of Westenra's voice. She was commenting on the difference in their styles, she said.

Westenra's father, Gerald, said he had been contacted by the media but did not want to get drawn into the debate.

The family was concentrating on Westenra's Auckland concert and her departure for England.

The singers went head to head last night after bad weather in Auckland postponed Saturday night's Starlight Symphony at which Te Kanawa was performing.

The concert went ahead yesterday, the same day as Westenra's concert with Dave Dobbyn at Villa Maria estate winery.

Gray Bartlett, credited with discovering Westenra, said Te Kanawa's remarks smacked of jealousy but that she had nothing to be jealous of.

"She (Te Kanawa) is great looking and has a great voice," Bartlett said.

"She is very popular and will continue to be."

However, Te Kanawa had to recognise that popera was immensely popular in the mass market.

"They are different types of music and that is probably what she is trying to point out but why make that comment in the first place? There is room for both forms of music."

Westenra's album sales and the recent success of Elizabeth Marvelly and Will Martin who have both signed contracts with British record labels highlighted the crossover genre's popularity.

Bartlett said using a microphone did not mean a singer was not as good as another not using one.

"Times change. The microphone is used so that more people can get access to the sound and tone of the person's voice," he said.

"It is not to do with (vocal) power."

Overhanging microphones would be used at many of Te Kanawa's performances to help amplify the sound, he said.

I particularly like this paragraph (along with the fact that Hayley let her singing do the talking):

"Westenra's father, Gerald, said he had been contacted by the media but did not want to get drawn into the debate."


On which note, that is my final word on the matter other than to thank Dame Kiri for all the free publicity and the overwhelmingly positive response in support of Hayley.

James

[Stephany]

Here's a very sensitive press release from SOLO-International.

Courageous Kiri Clobbers the Common Clods
SOLO-International Press Release
Sunday February 24, 2008

Opera star Kiri Te Kanawa should be made a double-dame for standing up for excellence in music, says SOLO Principal Lindsay Perigo.

“It’s not the first time Kiri has offended the Politically Correct and the mediocrity-mongers, which is an excellent thing in itself. It’s to be hoped she won’t back down and go on television and weep.”

Perigo is commenting on the brouhaha that has greeted Dame Kiri’s reference to birdseed soprano Haley Westenra as a “fake singer” who is “not in my world.”

“Kiri’s quite right. Hayley is a fake singer, and she’s most certainly not in Kiri’s world. Kiri has a voice; Hayley has a squeak. Kiri sings; Hayley whines, more or less on pitch. The fact that illiterate hordes can’t tell the difference, and actually prefer Hayley, is neither here nor there. Diamonds are rare; pebbles are everywhere. The ubiquitous preference for pebbles is the aesthetic AIDS of our time.

“One mediocrity-monger, unable to refute the obvious, has resorted to accusing Kiri of appalling rudeness to a fellow-New Zealander. If this be rudeness, let there be a symphony of it. Militant mediocrity has had everything its own way for a long time now; a little dose of ‘rude’ truth is long overdue.

“If personable young things like Hayley can prosper in the genre of homogenised bland that some folk confuse with ‘operatic,’ good luck to them. Let’s just not pretend that this has anything to with talent.

“Evidently Hayley is appearing tonight with the very worst singer in the world, the execrable and seemingly inescapable Dave Dobbyn. Any discerning punter who stumbles upon this excruciating combo by accident should count himself fortunate that the venue is the Villa Maria winery, where copious and strong libation will presumably be on hand,” Perigo concludes.

Stephany

[milewalker]

Hello all,

Postscript - I think your analysis hits pretty close to the mark. This is underscored by the fact that today, Kiri is back in the news, this time claiming that some of what she said was taken out of context.

Perhaps I am simply getting too cynical in my cranky middle age, but I have seen the pattern here followed hundreds of times. You need publcity, so you make some kind of outrageous comment to the media, and follow up by then claiming your remarks were taken out of context. The beauty of this setup is that you actually get two rounds of coverage over the deal - and people (even among Hayley's fans) are now talking about her.

For Kiri it is a win win situation. The only thing ordinarily at risk is that some people might perceive you to be the north end of a south bound brontosaurus - but this isnt that big of a problem for Kiri who I suspect has been seen as a rather sour elitist for many years.

Jon

[grant]

Hi Stephany

Well, I suppose someone had to stand up for Dame Kiri, yet once again he can only lambast something and someone he obviously knows nothing about and, by doing so, he has shown himself to be a totally worthless critic.

Oh yes - 'SOLO' ?

It stands for "Sense of Life Objectivists"

I rest my case!

Love and hugs
Grant
xxx

[milewalker]

stephany said:

Here's a very sensitive press release from SOLO-International.

Courageous Kiri Clobbers the Common Clods
SOLO-International Press Release
Sunday February 24, 2008

Opera star Kiri Te Kanawa should be made a double-dame for standing up for excellence in music, says SOLO Principal Lindsay Perigo.

“It’s not the first time Kiri has offended the Politically Correct and the mediocrity-mongers, which is an excellent thing in itself. It’s to be hoped she won’t back down and go on television and weep.”

Perigo is commenting on the brouhaha that has greeted Dame Kiri’s reference to birdseed soprano Haley Westenra as a “fake singer” who is “not in my world.”

“Kiri’s quite right. Hayley is a fake singer, and she’s most certainly not in Kiri’s world. Kiri has a voice; Hayley has a squeak. Kiri sings; Hayley whines, more or less on pitch. The fact that illiterate hordes can’t tell the difference, and actually prefer Hayley, is neither here nor there. Diamonds are rare; pebbles are everywhere. The ubiquitous preference for pebbles is the aesthetic AIDS of our time.

“One mediocrity-monger, unable to refute the obvious, has resorted to accusing Kiri of appalling rudeness to a fellow-New Zealander. If this be rudeness, let there be a symphony of it. Militant mediocrity has had everything its own way for a long time now; a little dose of ‘rude’ truth is long overdue.

“If personable young things like Hayley can prosper in the genre of homogenised bland that some folk confuse with ‘operatic,’ good luck to them. Let’s just not pretend that this has anything to with talent.

“Evidently Hayley is appearing tonight with the very worst singer in the world, the execrable and seemingly inescapable Dave Dobbyn. Any discerning punter who stumbles upon this excruciating combo by accident should count himself fortunate that the venue is the Villa Maria winery, where copious and strong libation will presumably be on hand,” Perigo concludes.

Stephany

Hi Stephany,

Regrettably it is all too easy to find this particular point of view on Opera forums.

One of the most recurrant lessons that history has to teach is that times change (these days the change is mostly technological - like the introduction of the microphone) and the tastes of people change to reflect that.

Most people dont listen to opera now for exactly the same reasons they stopped listening to gregorian chant when polyphonic music came around. The conservative reaction was also very similar. The first thing which happened in that instance was that the pope banned it in churches. This didnt work because it simply had the effect of driving it into the streets instead. Go foreward just two generations, and polyphonic music had largely replaced chant everywhere. (The pace of change is much faster now of course.)

There is also a quote from Tolkien which seems aproppo.

"The wide world is all about you: You can fence yourselves in but you cannot forever fence it out."

Perhaps the most revealing thing of all is that these people are doing what used to be called "circling the wagons" in the frontier days of America. People dont do that when they are not threatened.

Jon

[stevemacdonald]

stephany said:

Here's a very sensitive press release ...

I wouldn't call it a press release. It's just a blog. Blogs are nothing more than self-published, vanity-driven ruminations by pseudo-important nitwits with an internet connection, most of whom are currently living in their parents' basements.

[Dave]

stephany said:

Here's a very sensitive press release from SOLO-International.

Courageous Kiri Clobbers the Common Clods
SOLO-International Press Release
Sunday February 24, 2008

Opera star Kiri Te Kanawa should be made a double-dame for standing up for excellence in music, says SOLO Principal Lindsay Perigo.

Stephany

Did you mean insensitive, Stephany?

All I can say about that is that some people just love stirring up controversy and that author's one of them - they think it's cool to go against the flow, just for the sake of it. A more succinct and equally valid comment to him (and Kiri) might be: "Get a Life"

Jon, I too suspect that this whole affair was engineered by Kiri and her publicity people and it worked - it got her in the news for the first time for ages! But let's not forget, it got Hayley in the news too as the "injured party" in a way that will do her no harm at all.

The few 'articles' like the grumpy one above will be seen for what they are - as rude and insensitive as Kiri's original remarks, probably written by one of that tiny breed of opera elitists who know and will accept no genre except the one they happen to like.

Dave

[Stephany]

dave said:

Did you mean insensitive, Stephany?

I guess so, yes

stevemacdonald said:

I wouldn't call it a press release. It's just a blog.

They call it a press release so I called it a press release.
But you're right, I don't think we should give them too much credit for it.

Stephany