Martin
Global Moderator
HWI Management Team
Posts: 3,339
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Post by Martin on Feb 22, 2008 20:12:14 GMT
This isn't the first time that Kiri has openly criticised fellow countymen. Back in 2003 she said to the Australian newspaper, the Herald Sun, that her fellow Maori lack a work ethic and need attitude to succeed in life. Another quote from the time read: Associate Maori Affairs Minister Tariana Turia said Dame Kiri had had a "huge amount of support to get to where she has got to today". Young Maori, she said, had great potential "and they need the kind of support that she had to get to where she is".
Many comments centred on the fact that Dame Kiri, who is Maori, has not lived in New Zealand for many years. She said in her interview that, despite the fact that she had "very, very few friends" in the country, there was a "big possibility" she would return there next year.
A Labour MP Dover Samuels told the Christchurch-based The Press that "it's all right for her to make comments like that sitting on her throne being a diva with her nose up.
"For her to criticise without actually being at the coalface is certainly not helpful". |
Martin |
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Post by socalboy on Feb 22, 2008 20:22:54 GMT
| "She cancelled the concert series in March 2004, despite the promoter's assurances that no underwear would be thrown on stage when the pair appeared together". |
Need I say more! Martin She should have reconsidered - she could use a new pair since hers are obviously in a bunch. |
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Post by Stuart H on Feb 22, 2008 21:09:06 GMT
Thanks for the article Stephanie. I think you should have quoted it in green as there seems to be more than a touch of envy embroidered in Dame Kiri's words! As you say, Dave, You could perceive the need to criticize other performers as a sign that this is indeed the beginning of the end of her career. Stuart  |
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Post by martindn on Feb 22, 2008 21:16:49 GMT
I remember seeing Dame Kiri perform at the National Indoor Arena some years ago. It was a while ago, but I'm sure she used a microphone. I doubt there is anyone on the planet that could fill that arena with their voice without a microphone (for thse who don't know it, it seats around 12,000). She also sang a number of "pop" songs at that concert.
But if those are Dame Kiri's comments correctly reported, then I am disappointed in her.
BTW I have a cassette tape somewhere which includes Dame Kiri singing Hine e Hine. It has none of the beauty of Hayley's version IMHO.
Martin
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Post by Stephany on Feb 22, 2008 21:39:53 GMT
Here's a slightly different write-up from the New Zealand Press Association.
Stephany
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Post by martindn on Feb 22, 2008 21:59:38 GMT
Actually I think Dame Kiri has a few things wrong there:
Hayley did perform without a microphone in the streets of Christchurch in her busking days.
Hayley has 14 years of public performances behind her already, and does not appear to have any intention of giving up.
Presumably Dame Kiri's definition of "New Zealand's greatest music talent" does not include Hayley. I'm sure that a lot of people, including all of us here, disagree.
Martin
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Post by Natasha on Feb 22, 2008 22:14:07 GMT
I love listening to Kiri te Kanawa, but I agree her comments, if she really said them, were completely unprofessional. It is true that opera singing uses the entire voice, while other styles use less of it and if she had said that Hayley wasn't an opera singer, that's one thing, but to call crossover singers 'fake' is utterly and completely ridiculous! To clarify what she meant about the mikes though, Kiri is not saying that she or other opera singers (who I guess to her are the only 'real' singers  ) do not use mikes, but that they can sing without them. Opera singers can fill halls with just their natural voices (I heard it done and I'm telling you it has to be experienced to be believed!) but even they sometimes have to use mikes if the venue is super big or obviously if they are recording it for television - how else could the sound be captured? She was speaking about singers who cannot sing without mikes - which most pop singers cannot do. All I can say is she has obviously never head Hayley sing, and if she did, well, then she's deaf! It's so sad when singers become such divas! So many people are trying to change the image of opera and comments like Kiri's aren't helping! My voice teacher is one of the kindest, most encouraging people I've ever met in my entire life. She may not like some other styles of music, but she always finds ways to compliment and help everyone regardless, and because she's such a sweetheart she has gotten even the rock musicians to come hear her perform at Carnegie Hall. That's the way to win people!! Kiri on the other hand has just turned several potential fans off from opera needlessly. And why should she when she even has her own program to help young kiwi musicians? Seems a bit like a double standard to me... ahem... Anyways. Cheers for Hayley! She has shown again to be a true professional. She has a gorgeous voice and a gorgeous personality which to me means even more...  |
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Post by dutchjoyce on Feb 22, 2008 22:31:16 GMT
The only thing i'm thinking of, after reading this........................
When you're getting older, you have to accept, that there is a new generation to take things over!!!!!
Maybe, the time is now.........for Dame Kiri to start her final tour!!
Greetz JOYCE.
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Post by socalboy on Feb 22, 2008 23:22:36 GMT
Natasha:
Great post. Opera deserves better than this. I'm hopeful that people like your voice teacher – and you – prevail and bring a love for opera to a new generation.
And yes, cheers to Hayley for declining to mud wrestle with the Dame. It sounds like she’s having far too good a time with Dave Dobbyn to acknowledge this transitory drivel.
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Post by Nordly on Feb 22, 2008 23:51:14 GMT
I feel that I should not express my opinions here, but let me assure you that if I could stop Dame Kiri from singing I would. I am against people who insult Hayley, esp. when they tell lies about her. GO HAYLEY for not commenting! I'm sure inside she was flaming, but was great to keep it all inside. My anger is very diverse over this one topic- it goes from a ginat flame to a sea with waves only a millimetre higher than normal. GO HAYLEY and boo all who make trouble for her without then saying sorry!!!
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Post by stevemacdonald on Feb 23, 2008 0:16:46 GMT
Incidentally, many critics preferred Hayley's Maria from WSS to Kiri's. That's gotta smart.
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Post by Dori on Feb 23, 2008 1:12:07 GMT
Hello everyone,
I am so surprised that Kiri TI Kanawa had the courage to criticize Hayley so harshly, when she is cearly loved by her nation. It's not Hayley has done something to make people dislike her (like what you-know-who did), and I find it shocking for her to say what she said about classical crossover artists - and then inivite Will Martin to be her guest! It doesn't make sense. What I think has happened is Kiri cearly knows that postponing Kiri's concert until tomorrow will mean less audience members for her, because so many of them will be at Hayley's. It sounds like jealousy to me, and I am far from impressed. For a trained professional in the entertainment industy - one of the hardest places to work - to make a sour comment like that is plain embarrassement for her and her fans. And I find it shocking to see the newspapers tell Hayley 'don't attend Kiri's concert, just stay home and wash your hair or something' in the Canvas magazine, which I will scan when I get home from work.
Hayley was only too smart to not comment on such immaturity. :wink:
Dori
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Post by milewalker on Feb 23, 2008 1:35:51 GMT
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Post by stuartj on Feb 23, 2008 3:19:22 GMT
I suppose it would be too much to expect Will Martin to refuse to appear with her... There is a another story on the New Zealand Reality TV blog: www.nzrealitytv.com/2008/02/diva-kiri-slags-westernra.html----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Diva Kiri Slags Westernra Ouch, ouch, ouch. Dame Kiri showed her true colours today describing lovely Hayley Westenra as A fake who will not last. Dame Kiri, who due to perform at the Starlight Symphony in Auckland Domain tonight, said Westenra was not in her world and never would be. "I've had a 40-year career but these people, two or three years and they're gone," she said. "They are all fake singers, they sing with a microphone. Welcome to the 21st century Dame Kiri! Hayley took the high road, and refused to comment. For that we can only admire her for showing a greater maturity than Diva Kiri. Hayley's third album, Pure, is the best selling classical album of the Century in the UK, and she is New Zealand's best selling artist in any genre. Dame Kiri is scheduled to perform at the premiere of Dancing with the Stars, next Tuesday 26th February 2008, but will she be as popular as Hayley Westenra, who sang The Water is Wide in last year's Dancing with the Stars? If message board gossip is to be believed, most people side with Hayley, perceiving Diva Kiri to be a "jealous hag" who is past her prime... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So far there has been one response: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stunz said: It is sad that Dame Kiri sees fit to repeat these "classical purists" arguments against the popera, or crossover singers. The assumption that classical vocalism is the summit of vocal achievement won't wash. Opera singing itself has changed and evolved. Ironically, when the style of opera that Dame Kiri rates so highly first became popular, the purists of the time lambasted it as aristocratic and refined taste being overwhelmed by a bourgeois desire for spectacle and melodrama; and the popera style is a reversion to that "aristocratic and refined" style. Singing from the chest and projecting the voice can be learnt by just about anyone, but the microphone allows for a more nuanced, conversational style than the blasting and bellowing of opera. The purists judging all singing by the conventions of verismo opera of a 100 years ago is a failure to face reality. In answer to Dame Kiri's question, "yes I have heard Westenra sing". And on about half-a-dozen times I have heard songs that both she and Dame Kiri have covered and on each of these occasions I have much preferred Hayley's version. I even prefer Hayley's version of the opera aria O Mio Babbino Caro -- Hayley submits to the role; whereas Dame Kiri's version reeks of a "Look at me!, aren't I great" attitude. The great difference between Hayley's and Dame Kiri's worlds is the cattiness, snobbery and pretentiousness that seems to be such a part of the classical purist's world, as opposed the decency and pleasantness that goes with the crossover kids. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is the fourth sentence of that reply by "stunz" too clumsy to be easily understood? I wrote the whole thing in rather a hurry and it certainly isn't Shakespeare, but I hope it gets my message across. I have been following the crossover controversy for sometime and have read many articles about it. I'm interested if there is anyone else here who may like to discuss it? |
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Post by Oksana on Feb 23, 2008 3:49:21 GMT
I've got to say, I'm really disappointed with Dame Kiri's words...  Hayley's music is completely unpretentious and unsuperficial. I have no idea why someone would call it "fake." Is it wrong to branch out and try new things? Thank goodness for people like Hayley who have stretched the boundaries of classical music. They've done a big favor for Kiri's "world" by making more people appreciate this genre. Otherwise, far less people would be listening to her; in fact, I found Kiri Te Kanawa through a recommendation on Hayley's website. If Kiri thinks Hayley is doing opera a disservice, she is WAY wrong. I guess the thing I have a problem with is how Kiri worded it. She could have said she hated crossover and left it at that. Why attack Hayley? Oksy  |
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) do not use mikes, but that they can sing without them. Opera singers can fill halls with just their natural voices (I heard it done and I'm telling you it has to be experienced to be believed!) but even they sometimes have to use mikes if the venue is super big or obviously if they are recording it for television - how else could the sound be captured? She was speaking about singers who cannot sing without mikes - which most pop singers cannot do. All I can say is she has obviously never head Hayley sing, and if she did, well, then she's deaf! 
Hayley's music is completely unpretentious and unsuperficial. I have no idea why someone would call it "fake." Is it wrong to branch out and try new things? 