Hayley's varied singing techniques and styles

[Simba]

Yeh, the discussion actually helped! With various people contributing to it from different angles, so I don't think creating a new thread is such a bad idea, if only someone could help us move these post to a relevant thread And like I said comet, the things you mentioned aren't excuses at all. No singer could simply say that to her fans because they're the ones doing it for their career not us. They have to go through all of this just as how people of each profession go through their own hardship That's part and parcel of life. That's got nothing to do with us being suggestive of her singing technique. Like Libby said everybody needs constructive criticism.

Libby, it's just an opinion about Lisa Kelly For example, I wouldn't think Josh Groban (as good as he is) is among the greatest male voices of the generation, as I would think about Hayley, like you. I mentioned that for me no one has ever come close as far as Hayley's versions go, but this one I'm not too sure And you're right, I meant to say the Celtic Woman version.

[comet]

Is Hayley not entitled to sing in any style or using an techniques she may fancy on any given day, to test herself, to try something new, just for fun.

There will always be fans who like or dislike any given recording or variation of any given song,

It can be a bit harsh to criticise and analyse a song sung in the early hours of the morning on a radio or TV interview, when there has been no time to set a mood or ambiance for the song,or to warm up properly.

Painters and sculptors get a chance to alter and correct their work before placing it in public view, To correct minor mistakes

A singer gets no such luxury, you only have ONE chance at every live show. The circumstances of EVERY performance are different, temperature, humidity, acoustics, attitude of the audience or interviewer. The time and events leading up to and prior to the performance, the singer's own health and state of mind, there are just so many un-predictable variables prior to and during every performance.

Maybe it is unfortunate that almost every performance by any recognised artist is going to be RECORDED, anylised and discussed at length by every Tom, Dick and Harry with an opinion.

[comet]

Aug 25, 2013 3:04:59 GMT Libby said:

Comet, have you ever heard of constructive criticism? You don't learn anything by only getting praise your whole career, even if it is very richly deserved. Even wonderful, angelic singers could use a few hints here and there. I seem to remember you yourself wishing that Hayley had done BOTW in a softer manner. Would Hayley want to throw marshmallows at you for that?

And I apologize for continuing the off-topic discussion, but since none of the posts have been moved elsewhere, I have no choice but to respond here, where they all still are. And I felt the need to respond, thanks.

I could be into that, a Marshmallow fight.

P.S. It was the arrangement of that awful crescendo at the end of Bridge over troubled water I was critical of, Not Hayley's voice.
It was in the original Simon & Garfunkel version too and it even annoyed me then back in the sixties, Offensive to the ear and a recording engineers nightmare.

[Richard]

Hello Paul!

I've now moved several posts from the Hushabye Japanese Edition thread to this thread. They are in chronological order above your posts.

Richard

[Bamafan]

Aug 25, 2013 12:47:16 GMT comet said:

Aug 25, 2013 3:04:59 GMT Libby said:

Comet, have you ever heard of constructive criticism? You don't learn anything by only getting praise your whole career, even if it is very richly deserved. Even wonderful, angelic singers could use a few hints here and there. I seem to remember you yourself wishing that Hayley had done BOTW in a softer manner. Would Hayley want to throw marshmallows at you for that?

And I apologize for continuing the off-topic discussion, but since none of the posts have been moved elsewhere, I have no choice but to respond here, where they all still are. And I felt the need to respond, thanks.

I could be into that, a Marshmallow fight.

I'm game! Oh, and I'll bring the chocolate, and Graham can bring the crackers!

-Taylor i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif

[comet]

And we're off topic already

Oh no not chocolate, to messy,
Crackers to crummy.

Marshmallows, nice, soft and clean, unless you start walking them into the floor.

I love it when Hayley experiments with styles and techniques in her music.

The James Last collaboration,
The Helmut Lotti duet.
The Weigenlied variations
Majesty.
Barcarolle with Dame Malvina Major

Whatever tickles your fancy, go for it Hayley.

[grant]

Well said Paul! Some of the "tweeks" Hayley puts into her songs I don't like - as Libby said, if you really like the way a particular song is sung and that changes it can affect the way you feel about it. On the other hand, most are refreshing and totally fine. Either way, I don't see the need to make a song and dance about it.

I'm also up for a marshmallow fight if you're arranging one!

Cheers
Grant

[Simba]

Again, comet, changing around songs each time is not a problem, I wouldn't even mind if she changed a song to a point where it's unrecognizable or unpleasant, I'm talking about the way she sings itself. And if you had followed my posts I didn't base it on one or two performances but it was based on following every other performance of hers for quite some time and observing the obvious evolution in singing technique. (wouldn't say for the better)
People don't change singing technique as they fancy unless their singing technique is needs improvement. Hayley not being completely classically trained, an opera freak would say that she has bad singing technique from the start. But that is going specific to that genre, and genre to genre singing technique varies. But there are certain things that need to be considered for singing in general as far as where the sound is coming from. Now I've never seen any other female singer who has a perfect bridge between the lower and upper registers and can hit high notes with full resonance without screeching.
But now she rarely hits those notes live, and when she does it doesn't sound as effortless as it was. Observe Brahm's lullaby (one of my favourites from Hushabye) as she takes on the key change to sing the High "Lay thee down" the vibrato is strained and she's taking a lot of effort to sustain that note.
Watch her sing Bridge over troubled water, the second last "I will ease your "maaaaaind" she's putting a little more effort at the note than ever needed to sustain till the end, that it's forcing itself towards the finish of the note.

And no I don't think Hayley or any singer is entitled to change around singing styles as they wish if it's not better because, directly or indirectly it'll affect them only, in terms of the reception they get. That's why when it's more than a hobby, your career, you need to consider your audience, fans. You are not doing it for yourself alone, but for them even more so. That doesn't imply a singer does stuff they don't wish to satisfy their fans, no, I'm only expecting them to do what they do best.

And comet, all those 'styles and techniques' you've mentioned are like you said styles in music. Like I've said I don't mind if Hayley sings metal or rock, but in all those she was singing with the same vocal technique.

Why I'm stressing on this is because with Ennio Morricone's involvement he directed Hayley back to singing the way she was singing because that's the voice that impressed him (my heart and I from pure if anyone's wondering), and making her sing the way she did before brought us with the amazing Malena, which had some of her really high notes, effortless.

Everyone needs a guide, and it's not a wise idea to alter your strong foundation by yourself. Somebody needs to point this out to her, so I hope she works with somebody who knows what sound to get from Hayley, the best voice it has always been.

Hayley was criticized for less emotion, but that's all she was criticized for and that didn't call for changing the way you sing. People on youtube are posting asking "Has her pure voice changed to this or is this the unpolished accent?" "Even if the old performance didn't have emotion, her voice was so much better back then, this didn't even sound like her"
And those are just two of the innumerable posts. Doesn't all this mean something? We fans will like her no matter what, but it's all a compromise, let's face it, I only recently did. I've been telling myself "Ok, no matter what Hayley is the best singer, she has the best voice" Even when I started noticing obvious short comings which were never there before.

[comet]

Most professionals will be the first to recognise flaws or errors in their own work. Very few ever get to walk away from a piece of work and say "That was or is perfect". But for most casual observers or fans they can accept it as as near perfect as you are going to get. Struggling for that last one per cent to achieve perfection can become an obsession and take over your life and become a negative force.
These may be minor errors of timing, slightly off note or errors in lyrics, I'm not a singer so I probably don't even notice these small defects, even when they have been pointed out to me, I still fail to see that they have spoiled the overall performance.

Some of our members are singers, in some ways this may take away from your simple enjoyment of the music, because of your awareness of minor details and what you think is or is not correct, which for 99% of the audience would go un-noticed and even if they did notice it would not spoil the overall performance.

I do suspect some of you are in mourning for the sixteen year olds voice that recorded the wonderful album Pure, that voice is gone, it has matured and grown, It needs to be set free to find out what it wants to become now, not confined by what a handful of fans or a record label or a manager would like her to do.

I am hoping Hayley will get some good use out of her home recording studio, away from prying eyes, away from misguided advice on what she "should" be singing. You can't produce real art to order and with a deadline.

[Simba]

I do agree that you say most won't notice the small details, but those I mentioned posting on Youtube are not singers, and so many of my non-singer friends notice the difference in voice-texture, and said her voice doesn't sound so great anymore.

that voice is gone, it has matured and grown

That's the biggest lie us dedicated fans say to ourselves afraid to face the obvious truth. No that voice is not gone, Listen to "Malena", that's the matured voice for you. Amalia por amore, that's the rich timber I'm talking about.
Hayley will never lose that voice, that pure voice is always within her. That's why I'm saying, her voice hasn't changed much, voices don't change for women over a span of 10 years drastically.
It doesn't take more than a minute to demonstrate myself how she was singing back then and how she is singing now, it wasn't development, rather a one night's decision. She can choose to sing either way, she chose this. That's why when Ennio directed otherwise, she sang the old way, with so much more power.

You can't produce real art to order and with a deadline.

I am an architecture student, I wish to say the same about what I do, because creativity in design doesn't come as you wish. But I'm taught to understand that there's a deadline we always have to meet when it's your work, your profession. I didn't want to face it back then, but I do now. She's not singing just for fun, that's what she does for a living. (Not that she has to keep singing for her living, I'm just saying it's that serious)

[comet]

On the subject of who was one of the great guiding hands behind Hayley's voice,
May I suggest it was and maybe still is Dame Malvina Major

[Simba]

Yes glad that she had a role in molding hayley's voice, but I'm pretty sure she's not being guided by her anymore

[comet]

Aug 25, 2013 19:46:13 GMT Simba said:

Yes glad that she had a role in molding hayley's voice, but I'm pretty sure she's not being guided by her anymore

and that may be the root of the problem a lack of informed guidance.

[martindn]

Well, yes I agree to a point. If Hayley were to remake Pure today, I doubt it would be better than the original. That was then, and Hayley has moved on.
But then, when she was 15, she would not I'm sure have got close to this. www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMfuLQNownc

Simba, you have identified a trend, and I hope Hayley takes note and decides whether that is the way she wants to go. You may just have done her a favour.

Hayley is still a million miles ways from the horrible whining nasal sound favoured by most female X Factor wannabees. Trying to sound like them is the one thing Hayley should not do in my opinion. There are too many of them already.

No, Hayley is Hayley. It is no good hankering after the Pure days. That Hayley, lovely though she was, is gone forever. We still have her early albums to remind us of it. Hayley, like all great artists, continues to develop and change. You can't cast her in stone.

If indeed her technique is starting to slip, then it is good to let her know, since she might not be aware of it. It seems to me she is becoming progressively more poppy, Hushabye is her first non-classical album in the UK. And pop technique is what to my ears she is moving towards. But the quality pop market she might be aiming at might no longer exist. In pop music, talent is an unnecessary optional extra these days.

I'm not convinced that Hayley thinks too deeply about this. She just enjoys singing. And there are plenty of us that will enjoy listening to her whatever she does. So where does she go, with her singing technique and her music in general?

Like many others, I think she should branch out and do her own thing. Something that is uniquely her. Her own songs, her own music. What we have heard of that has been wonderful, and she has a real talent for songwriting for sure. And perhaps the finest voice on the planet. That ought to be enough to guarantee success, but who knows, perhaps too many people go for whining over a drumbeat.
Who am I to say they are wrong?

Martin D

[Bamafan]

Good point, Martin: Talent doesn't mean success, and vice versa. All too prevalent these days.

-Taylor i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif