Hayley's varied singing techniques and styles

[Jillian]

Aug 21, 2013 22:18:56 GMT martindn said:

Actually Libby and Simba, I think you both have a point. Hayley was criticised for lack of "emotion" and for her interpretation for years. She has turned that weakness into a strength and that is what makes some of her recent performances so compelling. Hayley has always listened to her critics and fans alike, and tried to do her best to please them.
But the Hayley of Hushabye is not the Hayley that originally blew me away the first time I heard her sing back in 2004. Then it was the purity and beauty of her voice. She was only 16 at the time. Nemunoki is a good example of that. BOTW is the other side of the coin, all about interpretation and yes, the quality of Hayley's voice too.
I played BOTW to the guy who I car share with on my infrequent forays into work. He said that most people perhaps wouldn't like it, because being different to the original, it was "wrong".
I pointed out that I doubted that Art Garfunkel could match the power, range and control that Hayley demonstrated on her recording, so had to record his version to suit his voice. Hayley recorded hers to suit her voice, and interpreted it her way, which is exactly as it should be.

Martin D

The thing is that a lot of effort and thought was put into designing Hayley's 'Pure' sound. In the sense that 'Pure' was the second attempt after the first efforts recorded in Ireland were considered not quite right.

Look at the difference between 'Hayley Westenra' and 'A Gift to You' and Pure. All the vibrato gone and in its place a crystal clear and pure tone that made Hayley famous world wide.

While it may seem obvious now that that's the way Hayley should sound, Hayley wasn't directed to sing like that during her first 2 New Zealand recordings. Sometimes things that appear effortless have had a lot of thought and work put into them.

Then with Hushabye, I think that Hayley and Jon Cohen wanted to do something 'different' with an album of lullabies - and decided that changing Hayley's singing style would be the way to do that. Which is slightly ironic, as Hayley's unique sound is what makes her different and stand out in the first place.

Only, Hushabye was recorded on an extremely tight schedule and re-inventing Hayley's singing style is a massive task -- creating something better than her signature 'pure' tone would be a massive feat.

I honestly think that they bit off more than they could chew -- with Hushabye I don't think there was time to play around with recordings and styles and have a good think about how things sounded. Trying to re-invent the wheel on an incredibly short deadline is never an easy thing.

The contrast of Hine Hine from Pure to Hushabye is staggering. You'd scarcely believe it was the same artist and I think the magic was lost.

However, I don't think that it's necessarily a bad thing. A lot of artists have a false start with a style change before they have success with the following album. It's like they build off and improve on what they started with the previous album.

Cheers,
Jillian

[Simba]

Surprisingly, Libby and especially Jillian, I agree with everything you said. And like I said, that was the voice that stopped me, moved me and made me want to become a fan. I say it again that if I had heard the current hayley first I'd have liked it but wouldn't have inspired to listen to more of it. Simple, pure, yes that's Hayley, not just her voice but also her personality.

But I wouldn't blame Hushabye for changing singing style, her voice matured from Pure to Treasure, beautifully and magically, and I can now say the Treasure Hayley is my favourite, and she moved on to the Japanese albums which were amazing because we had a bit of the pop side of hayley and also the pure sounds with a lot of her songs. But with Winter magic she kind of lost it, and started singing in a thin, nasal sound, at its time I think that live performance of "Drummer boy" was her worst ever performance.
And then, thank God for Ennio Morricone to take some initiative to make her sing the way he wanted, which kind of brought back the pure hayley in many songs (Once upon a time...) only more mature, still crystal clear, and more songs with yet another side of Hayley, and some songs with that nasal sound still. With her Japanese version of Amazing Grace much disappointing in that set.

But I don't think that really helped much, so as to get hayley back to sounding her signature way as her live performances, though grew in power and emotion, lacked that sound which attracted everyone so much so, almost every such video on youtube has replies saying "I don't like how she cuts many words, and uses much vibrato, not so legato-ish or connected anymore"

With Hushabye she's interpreted the songs exceptionally well, but some of the songs are very nasal, and coming to think about it, for a lullaby album, she should have used the voice that 'healed' so many. They didn't say Hayley's voice had more soothing quality than Mozart's pieces for nothing. I'm sure they wouldn't say the same anymore.
It's a shame that even though "When at night" is wonderful, she didn't choose to sing that in her classical way, which seems long forgotten now.

I may not be a great singer, but I know some stuff, with that I can say that Hayley is singing in a very nasal tone now, and her live performances are not as great as it used to be. My love for hayley made me compromise for the reduced quality each time, but watching her live performances from the Pure DVD, from Celtic woman (especially). The recent ones are nothing to be compared to that.

As much power BOTW seems to have, I don't think that is even needed for a song as such even if it's really awesome. Her studio version is really good, still nasal but her Live performances (the recent last 2), was a result of bad singing technique. Her vibrato is not as perfect as it was before neither are her notes having that quality.

I don't intend to be rude, but this was something I was planning to say for a long time. I defend Hayley no matter what and I always hesitate to say something negative, but after listening to her Lascia Chio pianga from Celtic woman and then that korean performance one after the other. I knew for sure something was really wrong. I wasn't able to listen to the new version anymore.

I know a lot of people wouldn't agree with anything I'm saying, but I don't mind demonstrating by means of a video of me singing the way hayley sang earlier and how what she's doing now is at the least better. She's becoming too poppy that it frightens me.
People might argue saying it's Hayley's wish to sing the way she wants, but no I disagree, this is not a hobby it's her profession, and her major fanbase matters.
Like I have said, all this belting and powerful singing a lot of people can do, some even so much better. But no one can ever sing as pure as Hayley did, and that's what made Hayley the best singer ever. Just had to get that out.

And please somebody move these posts to "Which direction?" topic. Thank you.

[martindn]

Well, Simba, I think I understand perfectly well what you are saying. To me it is just another example of Hayley's versatility. All great artists have to keep changing and moving forward. OK, we have people like Mike Oldfield, who made a career out of one good idea, but he is the exception. Most who have staying power keep changing and innovating. Even the Beatles, in their relatively brief career, kept changing and developing, "A Day in the Life" id nothing like "I saw her standing there" which is nothing like "Something".
Hayley I'm sure is always looking for different sounds, different ways to do things. That's what it takes to sustain a career in music. Hushabye is a new Idea, something different to what she has done before. And much as I loved her earlier work, and of her early albums Treasure is my favourite too, I understand why she had to move on. Ever searching for new ideas, new material. And she still has the power to wow me, BOTW is the proof of that, even if she doesn't seem to get out of second gear on the rest of Hushbye, BOTW is a reminder of who she is and what she can do.

Oh, and while I am at it, Jillian, many great albums were recorded very quickly. I read somewhere that HSJS1 took three weeks. And what a marvellous album that is. I don't think the length of time taken is any real indication of quality. The quality comes from the artists. The best can do brilliant things with minimal preparation. As we know Hayley can. I was once at a concert where she was asked to perform a new song on the night. As a tribute to some soldiers that had been killed in action. She did it, even if she needed to read the words from a sheet. Completely unrehearsed, and yes, she did struggle with some of the low notes I thought. www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMHKtM7Jzrs

Martin D

[Libby]

Simba, I agree that maybe the studio recording of BOTW could have been a little bit better, as good as it is... but I do not agree that her live versions were a "result of bad singing technique"!! I don't know how you could say such a thing. Maybe you know a lot about singing, but I do, too. I know bad technique when I hear it, and that's something Hayley rarely has. True, there are times, even in the past few years, and even last year, where I thought her technique could have been better. But I would never say it was bad; and that was definitely not the case with BOTW from this year. If anything, I think her live versions are better than her studio recording.

And I certainly agree with Jillian that Hine was much better on Pure, but I just appreciate her warmer tones in the new version, too. Plus, I'm trying to focus more on what I do like about Hushabye rather than what I don't. If I have to focus on it at all, that is. While there are songs on it that I can say I like, there are none (on the main tracklist) that I would consider to be my favorite Hayley song. And unfortunately, there are quite a few I'd consider to be my least favorite Hayley song, if you can really call them "Hayley songs". To me, most of them are just songs that Hayley sang, not really Hayley songs. One could say that about Danny Boy, too, I suppose, but her version of Danny Boy is way better than any of the lullabies.

[Simba]

Sorry libby! I think I got overboard there XD Nothing Hayley sings is bad, because she's beyond amazing. When I said bad I actually meant in a comparison to her 'treasure' singing style. While it's definitely not bad, it's still not great though, I could literally hear her nose playing a great part while singing that song XD, other than breathing.
But I listened to the live versions in Asia, and they're indeed better than the studio recording But I was more concerned about the recent 2 performances.

Your post makes a lot of sense, I'd completely agree that her danny boy was spectacular. But recently I was watching live performances of that song, and was still disappointed as she cut the notes, sang a little loud where it's not needed, and it lost its gentleness and purity.

I only hope there comes a Celtic woman reunion where Hayley is a part, that way Hayley can't sing the way she is singing now and would have to bring out pure tones : D


Martin: Thanks for posting that video so that I can make the explanation better, I actually like that performance. You know why? Her performance might have been under-rehearsed or sub-standard, not her singing style or technique.

Change is very essential, I wouldn't mind if Hayley sang rock, but that doesn't mean her vocal technique should change for the worse. Voices mature yes, but I do not see this as a result of that, take Sissel for example, I can see a lot of difference from her 1999 times and now, it's so much better now, refined, but it's her voice, her vocal timbre, the inner quality is the same.

My sister who is also a great fan of Hayley's after listening to Hushabye said, why is Hayley trying to sound 'sweeter' or 'childlike' as associated with the thin nasal sound. Even though she agrees the songs are pleasing to the ear.

[Libby]

Simba, I agree about some of her live performances. Most of them are great, but there are times when I listen to them, and if she does something slightly different in the song than what I'm used to hearing on the album, then sometimes I don't like it as much. Sounds, especially songs and music that I hear a lot, get so ingrained in my brain that anything slightly off almost takes away from my enjoyment. I shouldn't be that way, because Hayley always sounds good, and always does her best, but I almost can't help it. The only time I liked a different thing she did to a song was Both Sides Now, from her Paradiso tour early last year. Where she said "...in living every DAY!" I actually liked it a lot, because it made her sound more emotional and expressive in the song. And that song was never one of my most favorites of hers, but I appreciated the way she changed it up just a tiny bit. However, there were parts in that same song, same tour, that I did NOT like. She was trying to be TOO expressive. At the part "Tears... and fears... and feeling...sad", she drew the phrase out a little too long, and the word sad was flat, and "spoken" (it sounded more like speaking) fast. She seemed to be trying to express every single word, and it was too much. I wondered if she was taking criticism of her lack of expression in her earlier years to heart, and it made her try too hard. She just needs to find a balance, to be expressive, without over-doing it. I think she's been doing better lately, though I agree sometimes she's still a tiny bit nasally and thin in her singing. Maybe she needs Ennio Morricone to work with her some more, that's what seemed to do the trick before.

[Simba]

Haha I guess so! or maybe with James horner who made her sing listen to the wind, which is one of my favourites Trying different things like you said may not be to our liking, but I don't mind that as long as the way she sings or the quality of her singing is the same. Like you mentioned about the speaking thing, she's doing that in a lot of her songs. Even though I must admit at the end of the day she's better than most singers as she is now, she was the best before. www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uZCYrPB2FM Watching her sing this song live, with just the guitar reduces me to tears, especially when she does the vocalese. I'd say it's a flawless performance. No one can ever think of coming close. Perfect control in tone, vibrato, emotion and most of all volume. I was surprised how well she did the crescendos and fade outs in a simple acoustic performance without reverb.
But now, look at BOTW, we say it's a new side, and it is power-packed, but I don't think it's any more powerful than her wonderful performance of "Somewhere" www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCRZNr1AqA couple of years back. The last three words had so much more emotion and power and perfection than BOTW now. With the current kind of singing, it wouldn't take me more than a few listens to say that I like Lisa Kelly's Bridge over troubled water better than Hayley's which is upsetting, but that was never the case with any of the other common songs they did (even though I like Lisa a lot), because I thought she couldn't equal hayley at all, even when she was with celtic woman, Hayley always stood out, her voice always heard throughout.

So I'll only hope Hayley doesn't forget this way of singing, and that the new album is a perfect mix of classical, pop and folk songs.

[Jillian]

Aug 24, 2013 9:44:05 GMT Simba said:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uZCYrPB2FM Watching her sing this song live, with just the guitar reduces me to tears, especially when she does the vocalese. I'd say it's a flawless performance. No one can ever think of coming close. Perfect control in tone, vibrato, emotion and most of all volume. I was surprised how well she did the crescendos and fade outs in a simple acoustic performance without reverb.

I agree that this is one of the most spectacular Hayley performances ever. That was done in Australia and I saw that on the news sites and watched it repeatedly. I would say that clip is large part of why I'm such a big Hayley fan.

[Simba]

omg Jillian! I'd say it's a large part of mine too! I have it in my phone and PC and watch it atleast once everyday! It's pure magic to anyone. I admire how she perfectly starts and ends each note, she doesn't end all the notes properly anymore. I miss that hayley.

[Bamafan]

I wonder how Hayley would react if she saw this.

-Taylor

P.S.- This thread has gotten way off topic.

[martindn]

You know I don't remember that performance. I agree it is beautiful.

I expect Hayley would react as she always does. Take note and try to do something about addressing the criticisms. She has always resonded well to positive criticisms, and that's how I would class these.

Problem is different people want and expect different things from her. It is impossible to please everybody I am sure. But Hayley tries, bless her.

Martin D

[Simba]

Yes Taylor, that's why I wanted them moved to the "Which direction?" thread which would have been very appropriate there.

Martin, thanks for understanding our comments I do agree different people want different things, on the positive note, Hayley's effort at everything is tremendous. I only can't wait to see new material.

[comet]

Aug 24, 2013 18:28:16 GMT Bamafan said:

I wonder how Hayley would react if she saw this.

-Taylor

P.S.- This thread has gotten way off topic.

I sometimes wonder too.

Maybe she throws marshmallows at the screen and says :

"You try singing in 43 degrees celcius with humidity you could float a boat in and strange insects trying to devour you, after a lousy flight, no sleep for two days and a meal that would make rats sick"

"Have another marshmallow, "SPLAT" fans indeed, who needs enemies"

BTW Thanks for guiding me back to that Australian Scarborough Fair with Simon Hosford on guitar, gave me a chance to record the audio for the car.

Warning This next part of the post contains deliberate product placement


Oh Yeah ! The Japanese Edition of HUSHABYE from cd.japan was Yen 2,667 plus 750 Yen Shipping and packing which as always was excellent Total 3,417 Yen..

[Joe]

Let's please stick to the topic. The last few posts have not mentioned anything about the CD or its songs.

[Libby]

Simba, Lisa Kelly is a nice singer, but there's no way she comes close to Hayley in BOTW. Anyway, she didn't sing that by herself, at least not in the DVD. I can do without that version. The only versions I need to listen to are Hayley, Russell Watson, and Josh Groban, though he has never recorded it.

The discussion stemmed from BOTW, which is on the Japanese Hushabye, and which is still mentioned in most of the posts. Do we need to start a thread on song technique? I suppose we could, but I'm not sure we want to start a thread like that.

Comet, have you ever heard of constructive criticism? You don't learn anything by only getting praise your whole career, even if it is very richly deserved. Even wonderful, angelic singers could use a few hints here and there. I seem to remember you yourself wishing that Hayley had done BOTW in a softer manner. Would Hayley want to throw marshmallows at you for that? We're not trying to be mean, and I don't appreciate being called worse than an enemy. I don't think Hayley even has any enemies. I'm probably one of her best friends in the US, as far as fan support goes.

And I apologize for continuing the off-topic discussion, but since none of the posts have been moved elsewhere, I have no choice but to respond here, where they all still are. And I felt the need to respond, thanks.