Hayley's Songwriting

[Deleted]

Forgive me if a thread like this already exists, but my searches yielded no results. I'm aware that amongst the many cover tunes, Hayley has snuck some of her own compositions onto her records, but I'm having trouble finding any specific information on which songs/lyrics she has written herself. I know that most recently she wrote and co-wrote lyrics for Paradiso - notably Whispers in a Dream, and that she wrote some of the English versions of the Japanese songs, but beyond that I'd be interested if any of you could fill me in on the others.

-Rory

[martindn]

OK, it all started with Odyssey.

"What you Never Know (won't hurt you) has "Additional Lyrics by Hayley Westenra".. I think this was just the "I'm Falling for You" bit.

Her third international album Treasure/Celtic Treasure had four songs by Hayley. "Let Me Lie", "Le Notte (sic) Del Silenzio". "Summer Rain", and "Melancholy Interlude" (that last is Hayley's lyric set to an existing tune.

Her Japanese Songs albums are a minefield. On paper she wrote the lyrics to most of the songs but the music to none of them. But she had help with some of the lyrics too, from people who may only have translated the Japanese lyrics for her, leaving Hayley to make them rhyme and scan, or perhaps change the meaning of them entirely. I think the only exceptions on those two albums are "Amazing Grace" (obviously), "1000 Winds", "Shiroi Iro Ha Kobito No Iro" (sung in Japanese), "Love Love Love" (prexisting English Lyric) and "Nemunoki no Komoriuta" (sung in Japanese).

Winter ~Magic had four Hayley compositions. "Christmas Morning", "All With You", "Peace Shall Come" and "On the Wings of Time". The last of these appeared as a bonus track on the Japanese version of the album only, and only the lyric, in English and Maori, is attributable to Hayley.

On Paradiso she wrote lyrics for three of Ennio Morricone's melodies. "Gabriels Oboe" (whispers in a dream", "La Califfa" and "Malena".

On the compilation album Best of HSJS are two additional Hayley lyrics (apart from the ones already released on her Japanese Songs albums), Track 2 and Track 7 (they don't have official English titles as far as I know).

"Talk to Me", which you yourself have performed Rory, was performed by Hayley at two concerts but never recorded.

This is as I understand it. If anyone else has anything to add, please feel free.

Martin D

[Deleted]

Thank you for taking the time to list those, I will certainly listen to those tracks with Hayley's writing in mind from now on. I was pleased to learn that many of those tracks were written by her, as they are some of my favorites, particulary: Summer Rain, Peace Shall Come, La Califfa, and of course Talk to Me. I also love pretty much everything off the Jap albums, especially "I Believe."

-Rory

[martindn]

Hi Rory,

I agree, I Believe is a stunning song, particularly if you understand where she is coming from with it. I don't think it was originally a Christian song, but Hayley made it one.

If you like hearing Hayley sing Christian songs, "Majesty" which appeared only on the New Zealend version of River of Dreams (in NZ this was a double album) is stunning. HSJS1 is probably my favourite album of all time, there are just so many great songs on it. And I love Hayley's lyrics.

Martin D

[Deleted]

Agreed, HSJS1 is an outstanding collection of music. It's particularly special to me as it was one of the first of Hayley's albums I heard. It's also quite diverse, letting Hayley's versatility really shine. I could start listing my favorite songs from that album, but for that matter I might as well just write out the entire tracklist! If I had to pick any track that I'm not AS crazy about, maybe it'd be Nada Soso, but I still like it.

-Rory

[martindn]

Oh Gosh Rory. Weakest track on that album. Or strongest! Every track is brilliant, it has no weaknesses. But the weakest. For me, if I has to pick one, probably 1000 Winds. One of the two lyrics that Hayley didn't write, and IIRC, the only songs from that album that she has ever performed live in the UK were the two whose lyrics she didn't write, "1000 Winds" and "Amazing Grace". She did once perform "Hana" on TV in Japan, but she sung that partly in Japanese and didn't use all of her lyrics. She might have done sone others too in her Japanese concerts, we don't know. I don't know if this is another manifestation of her modesty when it comes to her own songwriting, but I really do love her songs and lyrics, and wish she would push them more than she does.

It is quite amazing that despite the fact that she chooses to hide all her best stuff on obscure albums that are only obtainable in one country, usually Japan, she is still such a hugely successful artist. Just think what she could do if she really pushed her stuff, as some artists do.

I can remember having a go at her, in a very gentle way about this after a concert a few years ago. I asked her why on earth such a brilliant album as HSJS1 wasn't being hyped to the skies and made available worldwide. She told me that was out of her control, and then went on to tell me that she was in the process of recoding a follow-up (HSJS2). But whoever was in control missed a huge opportunity I think. I'm absolutely sure that with the right promotion, that album could have been a huge hit and made Hayley worldwide. Perhaps it still could.

Martin D

[Bamafan]

Well, we do know that HSJS 2 made her a star in Taiwan, since it went gold last year. And Hayley's songwriting is absolutely wonderful; I hope she puts out more original material on her next album, whenever that will be.

-Taylor i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif

[Deleted]

lol 1,000 Winds might be my favorite on the album. But it's undeniably a fantastic album overall.
As for the modesty, I've met many musicians with this same mindset. It's usually the most talented musicians, but they tend to be afraid to risk people not liking their material unless they feel it's perfect. It's a shame that Hayley tends to be this way, cuz as we know her songwriting is fantastic, and most people would love it. Sometimes you have to be a bit superficial and let your ego come through if you really wanna push yourself to the extreme. I can understand because I'm often a perfectionist about my own material, and I never like to come across as a narcissist, but I actually decided to write a song that broke all the rules, called "Big." Ironically the people who are obnoxious and full of themselves and their music tend to lack the talent.

-Rory

[martindn]

Yes, I know what you mean Rory.

I was at a concert today, and I travelled 120 miles each way to be there. A young lady from Australia, who sings, and plays the harp and accordion. She is of welsh heritage, and sings folk and classical. Especially Welsh folk. she actually sang a song I learned as at school from my Welsh music teacher, I hadn't heard it since. She gave a wonderful performance in a church hall, and there were what, perhaps about 50 people there.

She is clearly a very talented young lady, but since she does not have a recording contract, or someone like Simon Cowell behind her, her talent will be largely unrewarded. Which is a pity.

And then we see on TV, X Factor and the like, talentless people hyped to the skies, and unfortunately it seems to work. You just need to sell your soul to Simon Cowell, no need for any real talent. How many people do you see play an instrument on that show?

Siobhan today did everything herself. It was a one girl show. Singing, playing the harp and accordion. (not her own accordion, one she had borrowed and had hardly played, yet was brave enough to use it in a concert - and there was the odd hiccup). In a strange country, a place she has never been. And she is quite a shy reserved sort of girl. Like Hayley, doesn't push herself forward. She was brilliant, spellbinding even, for a couple of hours. I think everyone there, including some local members of the church, thought she was wonderful.

For me that is real talent. Not overhyped wannabees who can't even sing in tune, let alone play an instrument at the same time.

Martin D

[Dave]

Jan 12, 2013 22:46:49 GMT Bamafan said:

Well, we do know that HSJS 2 made her a star in Taiwan, since it went gold last year. And Hayley's songwriting is absolutely wonderful; I hope she puts out more original material on her next album, whenever that will be.

-Taylor i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif

Hi Taylor,
Whilst that is true, what made her a star in Taiwan I was I'd say the World Games in 2009 - they never knew what hit them when she sang as the lead artist in that stadium and soon after, she sold out a 15,000 capacity arena there!

Cheers, Dave

[Deleted]

Completely. Especially in America, I'm somewhat offended by the music that becomes super-successful. Unlike some people, I don't have a problem with people MAKING that kind of music, but what irks me is how popular this "music" becomes meanwhile tons of talented musicians are left in the dust, and can't make a living doing what they were born and practice hours daily to do. I hate to keep bringing up myself as an artist, but this topic is a huge issue to me and my own personal goals. Frankly I have much hope for the industry, and I firmly believe that quality music CAN be extremely successful as it was a few decades ago. Just because a song is deep or emotional doesn't mean it can't be catchy, but it seems these days most popular artists skip the former in sake of emphasizing the latter.
Then there's another sect of artists that try to be something different to stand out, but in 2013 I believe that everything that "works" to some extent has been done, and trying to be completely original these days just winds up sounding weird. However, good unique music can still be made by drawing from many inferences of music that has "worked" before - it's something I'd like to think I'm doing myself.

We talk alot about these issues in this interview, if you're interested feel free to listen to some of it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR8IJvTPJB8&sns=em

-Rory

[Libby]

Jan 12, 2013 22:35:15 GMT martindn said:

It is quite amazing that despite the fact that she chooses to hide all her best stuff on obscure albums that are only obtainable in one country, usually Japan, she is still such a hugely successful artist. Just think what she could do if she really pushed her stuff, as some artists do.

I can remember having a go at her, in a very gentle way about this after a concert a few years ago. I asked her why on earth such a brilliant album as HSJS1 wasn't being hyped to the skies and made available worldwide. She told me that was out of her control, and then went on to tell me that she was in the process of recoding a follow-up (HSJS2). But whoever was in control missed a huge opportunity I think. I'm absolutely sure that with the right promotion, that album could have been a huge hit and made Hayley worldwide. Perhaps it still could.

Martin D

Martin, that's very silly to say that she "chooses to hide all her best stuff on obscure albums" when you even just quoted Hayley as saying that it was beyond her control.

However, as nice as the album is, I don't think it would be all that successful outside of Asia. The songs are very pleasant, and some rather catchy, but I think the form of pop might be a bit too mild and "tame" compared to what most people are used to. I like Nada Sousou, but I can see why it would be someone's least favorite on the album, because the music is rather twinkly. However the lyrics are beautiful, and the singing, positively gorgeous.
I'm sure there would be lots of people who would like it if they had the chance to hear it, but I doubt it would be enough to make it worthwhile, in the record company's point of view, anyway.

Anyway, I still don't believe that the song lyrics are completely written by Hayley. Since they are all existing J-pop tunes, she most likely based the lyrics off the translations. I don't think she would change an existing song that much. Would the Japanese like it if someone took a song they knew and made it a completely different song by making up their own lyrics?

As much as I like the Japanese songs... I've still always liked her regular albums better. I love the Celtic-type songs, and her own songs, like Summer Rain, All With You, etc.

To be honest, I don't like themed albums very much. That's why I was not entirely satisfied with Paradiso. Beautiful music, but not enough variety, and no original Hayley music. Yes, I know why it's like that, doesn't mean it has to be my favorite thing by Hayley. Though I couldn't tell you which album is my favorite. I can't choose.

[Deleted]

Libby, I can see what you're saying about those albums lacking variety, but I tend to look less at individual albums and more at the artist as a whole. No matter how one-sided a single album may be, Hayley's discography as a whole is rich with variety. Perhaps I also take this standpoint because I primarily listen to music on an mp3 player using "shuffle," thus rarely listening to one album isolated from the others. I still pay attention to what album each song is from, but I find I enjoy a more enriching musical experience with the shuffle feature, perhaps for the very reason that you mentioned, as single albums can run together a bit.
As far as the jap albums and Hayley's lyrics, I'd say you may be right about how little she changes the theme, but as a songwriter myself I imagine it would be nearly impossible to directly translate rhyming metaphors and the like. I would think Hayley still got many opportunities for creative writing in this process, especially since those songs are filled with imagery, metaphors, etc.

-Rory

[grant]

It must be very difficult for Hayley when it comes to decisions about where albums should be released and where she doesn't have much say in the matter. I'm sure releasing the Japanese albums worldwide, for example, would increase their sales, but we have no way of knowing whether the cost of doing so would be justifiable.

However, with such a large percentage of albums being bought on line, all Hayley's albums are available - I've just had a quick look on Amazon UK and they're all there, though the Japanese ones don't appear to be available as downloads and, of course, they're very expensive.

Having said all that I really hope that Hayley's next album is self penned. She's tested the water and met with favourable comments. Surely it's time now to bite the bullet and let the world hear more of her own songs.

Best wishes
Grant

[Libby]

Grant, I completely agree with you. It's time for an album with lots of "Hayley" material. I think if the songs are as good as her previous songs, the album could do pretty well. And her new songs might even be better than her previous songs, you never know.

Rory, I often listen to her albums on shuffle, too, and sometimes shuffled with my other artists' albums too. But the reason I worry about the individual albums is that I'm thinking of how well it will do. I want to see her properly rewarded for her amazing music more often with good album sales internationally, and maybe a CBA award or 2. Haha, well I guess 1 would be as good as we could expect.

I particularly want her albums to do better in the US so she's able to make more appearances here; it would be nice if she could go a litte farther than the east coast once in a while. It gets old when she can only go to Boston, NY, WA DC, but no LA, Seattle, or even the midwest for Larry's convenience.

In an interview recently, I think it was that one for Thailand radio, she hinted that her next album might contain songs more along the lines of Who Painted the Moon Black, which was one of her most popular songs on Pure. I notice that it's songs like that which seem to attract young people in particular, or people who aren't necessarily into classical-type music. If you could draw people in with some of Hayley's beautiful light pop songs, you have a good chance of convincing them on the rest of her music, too. I think as far as attracting more American fans, Hayley's self-penned songs are a good way to go. Definitely not 40's/50's music. Only if that means she does a duet with Michael Buble. But she wouldn't need to do a full album of that music to do that.