Perfect Pitch and Pitch Perfect

[Stephany]

I just listened to the recent NZ live radio interview again (you can find it HERE) and Hayley mentions the fact that she doesn't really know herself for sure if her teacher said she was "Pitch Perfect" or "Perfect Pitch".

That said, the most important thing is that she was noticed for her musical talent at the time and just as Dave rightly said, it doesn't really matter if it was innate or not as long as she currently has the ability to sing in tune.

[BarefootSoprano]

The chances are that Hayley has Pitch Perfect not perfect pitch. If you are born with perfect pitch (and it is genetic) you KNOW that you have perfect pitch. Especially if you are a musician. I have a friend who has perfect pitch...he is an amazing violinist. He can give you a note any time out of thin air and he can tell you if your notes are off and how off they are. Even if they are just the smallest bit off. He says it is more of a curse than a blessing. Through your day to day activities you can hear things off pitch or on or whatever. lol. There is my little addition to this topic. Gotta run to rehearsal.

[petertong]

dave said:

Hi everyone,
One of the things that attracted me to Hayley's voice in the beginning was her ability consistently to sing in tune throughout a song; I often get irritated by singers who cannot or do not bother to do this.

Cheers, Dave

Hi Dave,

I really agree... the only problem with this is that Hayley is so on pitch that its hard for me to listen to other singers (esp the run of the mill pop ones anymore) They seem all over the place compared to her. Grrr...

Peter

[mihizawi]

Hi guys,

I hope you don't mind me resurrecting this old post, but something that my friend, who is a singing student, said,made me look for this thread. We were discussing this video posted by Jillian: www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfKfr6ErzcI

Noone doubts she is pitch perfect, she always sings perfectly in tune. But what about her being born with the rare absolute pitch (or perfect pitch) gift? Well, there are some very interesting things my friend said about this video.

Focusing on the Pokarekare Ana performance during the interview, my friend said the first time Hayley started singing, a capella, to give the tempo, she started exactly at the same note as her usual recordings of this song, That kind of confirms that she actually has the pitch perfect gift.

But there's more: when she starts singing with the ukulele, she efortlessly changes the pitch and sings it higher to be in tune with the chords played on the ukulele. This abbility is called relative pitch, and most people can achieve it through training and practice, as opposite to the perfect pitch abbility. However, although perfect pitch and relative pitch abbilities are not exclusive, it iis reported that people gifted with perfect pitch find it harder to master relative pitch abilities, as changing the pitch of a song implies somehow fighting against the way they naturally memorize the sound. The fact that Hayyley, having perfect pitch, is able to change so easily the pitch of a song being only 17, makes her even more special.

Michal

[mihizawi]

Well... although some of you alreadyy mentioned that Hayley has done this in the past, I found a recorded definitive evidence of Hayley having the Absolute (Perfect) Pitch abbility: www.bouldercreekinternational.com/films/details/hayley-westenra-on-tour-in-northern-ireland-(low-res.-version-online) - Time 21:29 - Hayley enters the stage, and without having listened to any note from piano or violin, starts singing Pokarekare Ana a capella; a little later on the song, the piano joins and we discover that Hayley's voice is perfectly pitched with the piano. There cannot be any doubts now that Hayley has that very rare gift.

Michal

[martindn]

Hi Michal,

I have seen Hayley do that many times live, and confirm that she is always spot on. That's why I am convinced of her perfect pitch ability. Most singers simply couldn't do that reliably, although I know some of her backing musicians have sometimes unnecessarily insisted on giving her a note. She did the same thing with Prayer at Buxton, singing the first four lines a capella and off stage.

Martin D

[Caitlin]

Hey guys,

I can't remember where, but a long time ago Hayley was actually asked this question in an interview - is she pitch perfect or have perfect pitch? She said she is pitch perfect which is NOT the same as having perfect pitch. In perfect pitch, which is something someone is born with, she would be able to hear any frequency and tell you the note and how out of tune it is, if it is out of tune. Being pitch perfect she has an extremely well-trained ear and has the ability to sing the correct notes without hearing it.
She can do this for many reasons. As a musician she is constantly training her ear to hear pitches and as she practices them over and over again that specific note placement becomes more and more ingrained in her head. This allows her to sing a pitch without having to hear it before she sings it. I am currently in an Aural skills class which is training my ear so I will have the ability to do this too.

<3 Caitlin

[Dave]

Sept 1, 2010 22:19:51 GMT mihizawi said:

...But there's more: when she starts singing with the ukulele, she efortlessly changes the pitch and sings it higher to be in tune with the chords played on the ukulele. This abbility is called relative pitch...
Michal

Hello Michal and everyone,

Once again resurrecting this old thread, I am sure that many of us have noticed that Hayley said in a recent interview (in New Zealand I think) that she has relative pitch. I cannot recall which interview, perhaps if anyone can recall which one, they would post a link to it?

Anyway, I think that finally, we have the answer. There is an explanation that I found illuminating on the following web page: www.perfectpitch.com/perfectrelative.htm

Shall we just say that Hayley has 'perfect' relative pitch?

Cheers, Dave

[John H]

It was the BBC five minute interview
www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-13227934
at about 1:00 on the countdown clock

[Dave]

Hi everyone,

Thread resurrection again!

Thanks John for posting that link to the interview last year where Hayley says she has "good relative pitch - I can sing in tune!". The relevant discussion thread is "Five Minutes With Hayley Westenra"

I thought I'd bring this up again because of the new article from Marlborough Express, which we discuss here: hwi.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Media&thread=6215&page=4#143143 and in which following an interview with Hayley's pianist at the recent All Black's wedding, the report explains:

On December 9, guests had all gathered for the ceremony when Hayley Westenra appeared, singing unaccompanied. She had told Mr Tomes she would use a tuning fork before she started, ensuring the notes she sang exactly matched those on the piano when he began accompanying her.

This seems to be consistent with what Hayley herself has said: that she has good relative pitch and can sing in tune, so perhaps now, we have the definitive answer?

I wouldn't be surprised if Hayley employs various tactics to ensure that where there is to be an instrumental accompaniment, she starts on the exact right note. In the Ukelele song for example, she hums a couple of notes at the start, I have often heard a single note played on the piano before she sings, and a tuning fork as mentioned above would of course be the cast-iron guaranteed way to do it!

Perhaps we should now move this thread into the Hayley section of the forum for reference, Miscellaneous?

Cheers, Dave

[Richard]

Jan 6, 2012 13:21:07 GMT Dave said:

Perhaps we should now move this thread into the Hayley section of the forum for reference, Miscellaneous?

Definitely, so I've done the dastardly deed!

Richard

[Simba]

Hayley is not perfect pitch I'm sure if she insists she's only either one. It's saddening that in very rare recent performances, she's not completely pitch perfect either www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HBNvVRKXRyA#t=161s "Victory" for all, was sung in a sharp note throughout, coz I guess it was too low and I could hear slightly off-tune notes at the ends of long notes, throughout the performance here and there, but this was fine in the studio version...(EDIT: Checking the other live performance, the same problem's there, but I didn't notice that before...)

But I think this was the one that was very obvious (atleast to me), www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Y5KqgaO7IoM#t=49s , Tai na ta "NEEEE" or something, that nee was clearly sharp. (a semitone higher could I say?) i was very sad when I heard that note, but it's amazing how this was corrected or rather NOT slipped in the later performances of the same song! She sang the note shorter, so I believe it gave more control, even Tesera teng slips that note in that live performance which was posted, but I'm sure Hayley's better XD.

These off-tune notes are surprising because I'm pretty sure I've NEVER heard any off-tune note from Hayley before ever, (except one place in the performance of Shenandoah at the Capitol thing), so I was worried when I read Pitch perfectness can be lost too! D:, but on the other hand I really think Hayley's only gotten much better XD

EDIT: Although I do think no one can EVER be pitch perfect all the time....Next to Hayley who I think is a great singer is Leona Lewis who's perfect performance of Run had sharp notes when it was really low at two places. So it's not really an issue I guess, but she must be very careful not to go off-tune in long notes like the Taiwanese song, well she's still got so many years to come, and still yet she's one of the best singers with the BEST voice ever I feel, so yeah XD

[postscript]

Jan 6, 2012 13:21:07 GMT Dave said:

Hi everyone,

Thread resurrection again!

...I wouldn't be surprised if Hayley employs various tactics to ensure that where there is to be an instrumental accompaniment, she starts on the exact right note. In the Ukelele song for example, she hums a couple of notes at the start, I have often heard a single note played on the piano before she sings, and a tuning fork as mentioned above would of course be the cast-iron guaranteed way to do it!...

Cast iron! A tuning fork! :bat: I think Dave's harping back to the days before the Bessemer process!

Peter S.

[martindn]

Hi Simba,

Did it occur to you that Hayley might have been imitating Teresa Tang? She had obviously learned the song by listening to Teresa, and actually sang it exactly the same way, including Teresa's "mistake". If she changes it later, it may have been becuse Hayley herself realised it didn't quite sound right.We know that she does do that.
On "The World in Union" she was struggling at that point I believe at the bottom of her range.
Wuthering Heights is another song where some notes sound a bit off to my ears, but it is exactly the same notes that sound off in Kate Bush's original version.
What do you think of this - same tune, different song, but unrehearsed before the concert.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMHKtM7Jzrs&list=UUbw8JnrNuB0LxNTxt4EGY1g&index=16&feature=plcp

I think there are a couple of dodgy notes in there too (it took me quite a bit of heart searching before I decided that I would upload that video), but forgiven because she hadn't rehearsed the song and again, parts of it were a bit low for her I think. Notice how she seems to lose power in the lower notes.

But I think we are being over critical. Very few if any other singers get anywhere near Hayley's habitual accuracy. And I would rather listen to her than anybody!

Martin D

[Libby]

Yes, she does sometimes struggle a bit in low notes, even now, when her voice has deepened somewhat. I hate to say it, but if Who Painted the Moon Black was the only song Mr. Sells had heard Hayley sing in ChCh, I'm afraid I wouldn't have blamed him for saying she sounded bland. I remember watching her performance at that one skating show (which isn't to be found anymore), and I didn't think it was up to par, even back then. Her "black" notes tend to be flat. I can't figure out why she doesn't sing it like she did on Pure. It's not as if she was singing very high then, and we know Hayley can still hit really high notes if she wants to.
There was a concert in summer 2010 where she sang Never Saw Blue, and her beginning notes were a bit worrisome there, too. I think that one was in Wales, the one where she sang Joeline, and wore a short red dress.