jeroen
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Me and my old guitar
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Post by jeroen on Jan 30, 2007 12:57:54 GMT
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Dave
Administrator
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Post by Dave on Jan 30, 2007 17:22:55 GMT
I have spoken to many of the people who were there including a couple who were in the first row. There is no lyp-syncing gonig on. Some have said the same thing about the live shows on the tour and I can tell you that I have been to 6 live shows so far sitting at various points in the first few rows at each of them and I can tell you that I can hear their unamplified voices. THERE is NO lyp-syncing gonig on...EVER!!!. Hi alcan1, I apologize for my use of loose language... the issue here I think is not lip syncing, like you get when pop singers who can't sing very well perform on TV shows. I think the issue is whether or not - after a genuine LIVE performance - technical problems prevented the use on the final production of the audio (or all the audio) from particular tracks in a particular performance. In this case, if it was recorded over two evenings (they often are but I'm not sure about this one) the producers of the TV show and/or DVD might want to use the audio from the other performance - or even insert a segment recorded subsequently. It's easy to imagine that the best video and the best audio don't always match up in the two performances and when this happens, I'm sure TV and DVD producers can't resist the temptation to splice bits together from different performances and in the worst case to add a short bit recorded afterwards. I don't think anyone is saying that CW can't or didn't put together an excellent LIVE show on the night(s) but the suggestion is that the best bits (audio and video separately if necessary) were selected to put together the best possible TV show and DVD. This could easily lead to slight lip synchronization problems but only people sensitive to such things would notice. Producers would always try to mask it by cutting to a long shot but this may not always be possible. I am certain that all TV and DVD productions do this and the more difficult the conditions (such as outdoors!) the more likely it is to be be necessary. There is nothing wrong with it and it's nothing to do with miming! Cheers, Dave
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Post by purehayleyfan1 on Jan 30, 2007 22:48:59 GMT
Hi alcan1,ok, if there's no lip-syncing going on,then my question is,"is what we hear durnig the show on TV ,the same thing as what is being heard by the live audience??..I don't think the weather cause a problem as the wind blowing on the girls microphones as they wore headset type of mikes & I don't think there was much wind to cause a poping sound in the microphones,it just look like at might a bit cold there during the filming... i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif
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alcan1
Junior Member
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Post by alcan1 on Jan 30, 2007 23:31:06 GMT
Yes it is the same. From what i have been told by many people that were there...They had to stop the show severl times and do certain numbers many times to get it right. The 90 min show really took 6 to 8 hours to film over 2 nights. It was the second night on ug 24th that was used for the main takes. The first night was baically a dry run to get camera placments sound checks etc. There wer 12 cameras used at many different angles. With so many cameras the audio does get out of time from time to time. Also during post production they do use different things to make it look different such as flipping video. On the first DVD you can see the mic on one side then in the next shot on the other side. It is Live and there is no Lip Syncing going on.......Now is the time I wish I had gone over there for the filming.
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Post by jeeper on Jan 31, 2007 0:13:52 GMT
Dave, You are quite correct in the parts about audio patching of different performances sometimes. Now if they did it for the Slane show I do not know. There is also another little understood thing about taping a show with music involved. When the initial show is done either the video people or the audio people take control of what is considered master clock then the other syncs to that clock. The audio folks have many many tracks of audio to mix down to an acceptable sound before the final production is finished. They take the audio only and at least remix all the tracks into their product. Many times they also put post production compression, equalizers, and etc to each track. After they are satisfied with their work then the audio only is handed over to the mastering house for the audio and they put the fine tune to it for the medium it is to be put on. The mastering house then sends the finished product to the video folks to put back to master clock signal and put it with their production. At any stage of the production process someone may slip off master clock time and thus the product has to be patched to the video as best the video folks can do.
BTW it is not unusual for such a show as Slane to end up having 40 or more audio tracks for the mix.
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Dave
Administrator
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Post by Dave on Jan 31, 2007 0:42:39 GMT
Thanks for the explanations alcan and jeeper, it's much appreciated. So let's just say that if and when the singers' lip movements don't exactly match the music, it is for "technical reasons". Even home DVD players and PCs have been known to slip out of sync on the odd occasion (well in my household, anyway!)Whichever it is, I can live with it! Cheers, Dave
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Post by jeeper on Jan 31, 2007 1:04:26 GMT
My wife called me away before I finished the first post and when I got back others had been made.
Most audio editing these days is done "in the box" (computer) and all it takes is a careless drag of a mouse to result in time changes either lengthening or shorting a segment of audio. And the computer method can and does also result in time code getting messed up.
I have edited a solo where a pre teen sang with an adult choir. I went to rehersal and recorded the song for level and my practice. The girl presented a good performance but the choir, as usual, held back at practice. When the performance time came the girl choked in fear and messed up hers but the choir did great. I was able to salvage by patching in her practice solo with the choirs performance. That took a lot of time for me even "in the box".
purehayleyfan1 commented about wind noise, that could also be a problem with the head-worn mics. I don't know what they are using now exactly but when they started out they used DPA head-worn mics that were omnidirectional. This gives an easier mic placement that is not direction sensitive. The other prime reason for that choice is that they respond with a flat frequency response which means no "coloration" of the sound. DPA is perhaps one the finest mics in the world and is preferred in many applications especially in classical music. They also make other patterns that are more directional with the same appearance and a directional may well have been substituted for the outdoor performance with cutting down on outdoor interference.
The same topic has came up regarding the lip sync with the first DVD. Mairead, the violin/fiddle player, confirmed that it was only production glitches that time. (BTW her instrument was also miced with another DPA product at that time.)
Hope my explanations were helpfull.
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Post by Richard on Jan 31, 2007 8:35:48 GMT
Many thanks for your input, Jeeper! That gives us all an insight into TV and video production. And we all thought modern technology was designed to make life easier! Best Wishes from London, Richard
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Post by stevemacdonald on Jan 31, 2007 9:47:51 GMT
What I don't get is, why all the elaborate post-production on what was purported to be a live performance?
Live acts are understood to be warts-and-all from the audience standpoint. No one really expects the performance to equal a slick studio version of same, yet the producers of these Celtic Woman DVDs are obviously aiming for a close approximation of that studio standard. To me this removes most of the "life" of the concert.
I now have to watch this DVD with the unblissful knowledge that what I'm seeing may not correspond to what actually happened. Hayley may be mouthing the words but the real singing we heard was possibly done at a different time. How charming.
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alcan1
Junior Member
Posts: 59
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Post by alcan1 on Jan 31, 2007 17:11:51 GMT
What I don't get is, why all the elaborate post-production on what was purported to be a live performance? Live acts are understood to be warts-and-all from the audience standpoint. No one really expects the performance to equal a slick studio version of same, yet the producers of these Celtic Woman DVDs are obviously aiming for a close approximation of that studio standard. To me this removes most of the "life" of the concert. I now have to watch this DVD with the unblissful knowledge that what I'm seeing may not correspond to what actually happened. Hayley may be mouthing the words but the real singing we heard was possibly done at a different time. How charming. What 99% 0f the people who encounter Celtic Woman for the first time don't seem to understand is the Celtic Woman is NOT a concert. It is a Show much like a stage show. In a concert such as in Hayley's DVD there is verbal spoken dialog. It is very common for performers to verbally introduce songs or tell stories about the songs before singing them. That does not occur in the Celtic Woman show. Celtic Woman really has elements of both a concert event and a stage show. This is where alot of people get confused. The show is structured as a stage show complete with costume changes and a 20 minute intermission between the 2 Acts. The only element of Celtic Woman lacks from being a true stage show is a storyline or plot. In filming the show 12 cameras are used to capture as much of the show as possible. Theres just too much going on all over the stage. And in fact the whole show wasn't captured by all the cameras. Quite a bit was cut out of the show due to time constraints and the inability of the cameras to capture everything going on.If it were just a concert then only 1 camera would be required to capture the live concert event. Once you see the show live you begin to understand the unique nature of the Celtic Woman Show. But in filming the show it is live and the video you see and the vocals you hear are the same time frame they just get out of sync when using 12 separate cameras. The sound is recorded and so is the video but each video tape doesn't have its own soundtrack. There is only one master soundtrack recorded not 12. Thats why from time to time the sound and video could be out of sync for a fraction of a second.
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Post by comet on Mar 17, 2007 0:27:48 GMT
Hi Folks. Irish fans please note. A New Journey will be broadcast in Ireland on TV 3 at 6pm on Sunday 18th March at 6pm. This is no excuse not to buy the DVD at your earliest convenience comet
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Ed
Junior Member
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Post by Ed on Apr 11, 2007 4:39:24 GMT
Everyone:
I don't care about the technical details. It's a wonderful DVD and I enjoy watching it almost daily. I also have the first DVD and it too is wonderful as is Hayley's "Live from New Zealand". These are DVDs to be watched and enjoyed without nit-picking about the sound being ever-so-slightly out of sync with the video. In the "A New Journey" DVD, I felt that the opening number rightly placed Hayley at center stage. And did I imagine it or did Hayley appear to blush slightly during the shoulder action portion of "Spanish Lady?"
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