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Post by spiderman on Nov 20, 2010 21:44:18 GMT
I was watching Hayley's Pie Jesu recently, and I noticed the more recent comments were comparing her to Jackie. Someone rudely said something like, "Too bad she couldn't do this at 10 years old.& i dont think its rude. its a statement of their opinion. if they are delusional enough to comment on something they know nothing about then we should respect their right to stupidity. i seriously question whether it is natural or desirable for a 10yo to sound like a 30yo. the reason why i like WITA so much is because she sounds 12. it is natural that she do so, her voice is strong and she holds her notes well as she does in the 2 early youtube videos ["lullaby of broadway" and "ben". it is irrelevant that hayley cant sing like jackie because hayley obviously sung better than one would expect someone that age to sing the gentlemans comments on youtube are, therefore, not based in fact. my suggestion is that he has an inapproprite interest in jackie and his feelings are getting in the way of reality the spiderman |
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Post by mihizawi on Nov 20, 2010 22:08:16 GMT
Spiderman, it's not my job to decide, of course, the moderators will have the corresponding discussion on this matter and whatever they decide, I will support it as a wise decision, they have proven to me they are very competent at their job. In my personal opinion, if it is proven that there's an outstandingly wide support and interest in Jackie, then the possibility should be considered... But, there are other artists who have a strong following and threads as long as Jackie's (Faryl Smith was almost as heavily discussed as Jackie when her phenomenon started, and is indeed followed by many active members of the forum). What I am saying is that, obviously, we can't have a sub-board for every artist having a strong following and long threads, cause there are too much of them. my suggestion is that he has an inapproprite interest in jackie and his feelings are getting in the way of reality the spiderman Oh, and I haven't bothered to look at those comments, but isn't it a little irrespective suggestion? Michal |
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Post by spiderman on Nov 20, 2010 22:20:57 GMT
What I am saying is that, obviously, we can't have a sub-board for every artist having a strong following and long threads, cause there are too much of them. i wouldnt allow most of the OT discussions here. as i said, i understand why this board is run differently. i here to support hayley, if i want to show support for anyone else i'll do it in another place my suggestion is that he has an inapproprite interest in jackie and his feelings are getting in the way of reality the spiderman i think you meant "disrespectful" and no it wasnt. i acknowledged he has a right to the opinion itself. it just happens that i dont believe his opinion has a foundation in reality. the only thing i can think of is that he has another reason for his opinion, i.e, he has an attachment to jackie that isnt explained by the quality of her music [disclaimer: that is in no way an admission by myself that jackie's singing has any quality; you are all entitled to disagree as normal]. |
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Post by mihizawi on Nov 20, 2010 22:46:11 GMT
On the first thing, once again, it's not our job to discuss this. I understand your opinion, but I like pretty much the way it works now, it is nice to talk about other things in this nice community, and also, it is useful, I get to discover many artists that, otherwise I would never get to know.
And, yes, I did mean "disrespectful", sorry, as you know, English is not my first language (actually, it's my 4th one!). And, yes, I think most of us agree that those comments show an underestimation of other artists caused by holding Jackie in a very high esteem. But there are many members in this forum who are very fond of Hayley, and not only because of the quality of her music. The words "inapproprite interest" suggests something more than just fondness for the idol, and I am sure noone would like this being said of him.
Michal
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Post by spiderman on Nov 20, 2010 23:15:06 GMT
On the first thing, once again, it's not our job to discuss this. we belong here too, so yes we can discuss it. we also have to respect the way it is run too... but that doesnt mean we cant disagree if we do it respectfully. i like it that way too... im as off topic as anyone. its just that i wouldnt be quite so liberal as regards to the issue of "offtopic" performers. theres a time and place for everything im impressed me too. i love hayley. jackie is 10 years old. i doubt there are many countries on earth it would be seen as appropriate for anyone overt interest in a child. Nz isnt the most liberal country when it comes to civil rights, so yes it would get you judicial attention the comment i made was intended as a reflection the gentleman who made the comment on youtube not a wider reflection on the morals of anyone else. he is obviously delusional if he thinks jackie is more talented than hayley and i dont see why that shouldnt be acknowledged |
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Post by mihizawi on Nov 20, 2010 23:31:11 GMT
We agree on most, I was only saying that you could have said this in other way: admiration and even adoration of someone as an idol, even if that idol is 10 years old, is not that clearly inapproprite, and quite different to what your words seemed to suggest at first sight.
Michal
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Dave
Administrator
HWI Admin
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Post by Dave on Nov 21, 2010 0:22:03 GMT
Dave, now that Jackie's first album is out, do you think we can get a Jackie sub-board? Hi Dennis, I'm afraid that having an album out, even if a singer is similar to Hayley, isn't among the main criteria for having a sub-board here. In view of the discussion between spiderman and Michal above, I'll add a few notes of explanation about the sub-boards. They are there for a variety of reasons and several of them go back a long time, during which period the criteria may have changed. But in general, they are there these days because of some connection with Hayley, her management, or this forum (i.e. a long standing membership). One or two may have been set up because of a connection via one or more of our management team or 'partners' at the time. When we last reviewed them, we were looking to see if the original reasons for their inclusion were still valid, with the intention of reducing their numbers rather than adding to them. When we next review them, we will be adopting a similar approach, so a further reduction is more likely than an increase. So to finally answer your question, we haven't considered starting a sub-board for Jackie but if we did, we would be unlikely to say 'yes' because of the absence of any connection with Hayley, her management old or new, or personally with this forum. I hope this answers your question, albeit in a long-winded way!  Cheers, Dave |
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Post by milewalker on Nov 21, 2010 0:37:28 GMT
Now you have confused me Dave,
A while back I asked why Josh Groban had no sub board.
Jackie certainly seems to fit what I thought you were detailing as the main requirement at the time.
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Dave
Administrator
HWI Admin
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Post by Dave on Nov 21, 2010 1:12:04 GMT
Hi Jon, I know you are referring to the "big-name-singer similar to Hayley's style" criterion, which we did at one time allow but we did abandon that as it had led to what we thought were excessive numbers of "other artist" sub-boards, and we had to prune them first to 20, and then to 15 or 16. We are going to have a staff discussion about this prior to our next review of the sub-boards in January but the aim will likely be to try and reduce them not increase them, if we can sensibly do so. Of course, Other Artists who meet the posted criteria for Other Music may continue to have their own threads and we encourage that, as confirmed by Joe in the Guidelines thread.Dave |
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Post by milewalker on Nov 21, 2010 9:15:33 GMT
[ he is obviously delusional if he thinks jackie is more talented than hayley and i dont see why that shouldnt be acknowledged This comment is patently ridiculous. My wife - who i have been trying to get interested in Hayley for nearly 10 years now, still yawns. However, she adores Jackie Evancho. It isnt just Pie Jesu. She likes everything Jackie does better than Hayley. Are you saying my wife has an "inappropriate interest in Jackie"? Jackie Evancho is going to debut at number 2 on Billboard next week. While Hayley never took off here, it is without question that at least some of these people have heard Hayley and prefer Jackie as well. Are all of them delusional? I just dont get the negativity here....It isnt the expression of opinion, different people have differing tastes. It is the manner in which it is being expressed. - and it seems to be unique to this artist, and this thread. Taylor Swift had some similar resistance, but she isnt crossover. |
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rjstf
New Member 
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Post by rjstf on Nov 21, 2010 17:06:39 GMT
I found my way to this board by way of my interest in Jackie, through a link. Once I realized this was a subboard to Hayley's site, I checked out some of her music, which I was previously unfamiliar with. So when I decided to preorder Jackie's new CD?DVD through Amazon, I also ordered "Live from New Zealand."
At this point, it doesn't matter very much whether you give Jackie a subboard. However, her future musical accomplishments and choice of songs may make that decision more clear. Jackie is a ten-year-old singer like no other (that we have recordings of), but I see no need to say whether either she or Hayley is better. I just hope Jackie emerges from her teens as well as Hayley.
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Post by mihizawi on Nov 21, 2010 17:47:55 GMT
Indeed, Jackie's style now is only comparable to Faryl's at 12, because nobody before those two have attempted to sound like that at such a young age (at least from what I could have hear... although Patricia Janeckova, 12, is also pointing at that direction). While I think Faryl's mezzosoprano voice is more special, I admit that there are some points where Jackie is better than Faryl at 12.
So, yes, comparing Jackie to Hayley at 10 would be like comparing Hayley to, for example, Kiri Te Kanawa, of course, Hayley sounds so different than Kiri because she wants to sound different, you can like one better than the other, but comparing them and trying to say who is better would be stupid. Also, Jackie is at a very different stage of her career, she has proven to be able to gain a spectacular popularity, but she has yet to prove that she can mantain it, which I hope she does, I really enjoy her and would like to see how far she can get. May she have a career as long as Hayley.
However, as Dave was kind enough to explain, having an own subboard in this forum doesn't really depend on how far Jackie is able to go in her career, there are other criteria for that... Would be nice if Jackie became so closely associated with Hayley to meet those criteria, but for now nothing points that it could be possible soon.
And, Jon, as you can see,, I also think calling interest for Jackie "inappropriate" have not much sense... But I haven't seen a generalised resistence to Jackie here, rather the opposite, most of us like her and like to discuss about her... At some point there have been worries about her getting too much relevancy, but I am sure those who were worried are more relieved now, as it have been proven it was only the initial boom.
Michal
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Post by spiderman on Nov 21, 2010 23:24:06 GMT
And, Jon, as you can see,, I also think calling interest for Jackie "inappropriate" have not much sense... its not that non-sensical... its a cultural thing. in NZ we are very paranoid about issues relating to children and the legitimacy of adults being interested in them. to a point it is viewed as inappropriate to have an interest in children regardless of how talented they are. i could attact attention from law enforcement if i had an obvious admiration for jackie or anyone else her age within that framework yes i would be expected to feel its inappropriate for adults to be interested in her. i respect the fact that your [yes, everyone] culture is different. but that is how i feel and why. i think we shoudl leave that here though cos it has dragged on and we should agree to disagree [so to speak] michal-- there was some trouble between hayley and kiri a year or so back. please never compare hayley to kiri ever again |
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Post by mihizawi on Nov 22, 2010 1:01:27 GMT
Hi, Spiderman...
About the first thing, I am sorry, only now I understood you meant ANY (and not only romanntic) kind of interest or admiiration for a child is considered inappropriate in kiwi cuture... I could still discuss the sense of such a feeling, but as it's not the right place to make such discussions, I'll just accept that as a cultural difference... However, it surprises me, as Hayley was once a child star too...
On the Hayley and Kiri thing, I am well aware of the issue you mention. First of all, I would never compare them on a personal level, as I think it is very clear to most of us who is so muuch superior there. Second, even on the musical level, I was only saying that they can't be compared, so I wasn't actually comparing them. I used Kiri as an example of a dramatic opera soprano, precisely cause I knew most of us would have heard of her, but if you dislike thinking of her, you can put Jessye Norman or any other sounding similar.
Michal
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Post by spiderman on Nov 22, 2010 1:19:58 GMT
.. However, it surprises me, as Hayley was once a child star too... thanks for understanding finally; i think that will take the heat out of the issue. ... hayley was teenaged. i know to rational people thats semantic but culture is what it is. society is filled with such odd double standards. im not going to try and rationalise it im not sure how to say this, and its in english. im sure we agree really, its just a "thin ice issue" if you follow. i dont like to go there because i have some very strong feelings towards hayley [no-one noticed right???] and its too easy to cause offence. saying they cant be compared even though i took you literally is a dangerous thing because it can mean that one is of a much higher standard than the other; as distinct from being different . its open to intepretation. now that we understand each other, we can move on to more worthwhile topics |
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