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Post by larryhauck on Mar 27, 2009 15:34:34 GMT
HI PADDY,
I DIDN'T MEAN TO BE CRITICAL OF ANYONE IN MY POST. I WAS JUST STATING MY OPINIONS. I KNOW YOU AND OTHERS SUPPORT HAYLEY 1000%.
LARRY
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Post by Paddy on Mar 27, 2009 17:04:46 GMT
HI PADDY, I DIDN'T MEAN TO BE CRITICAL OF ANYONE IN MY POST. I WAS JUST STATING MY OPINIONS. I KNOW YOU AND OTHERS SUPPORT HAYLEY 1000%. LARRY Hi Larry, I didn't see your post as critical at all. Just a bit of welcome commonsense, that's all. Paddy |
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Post by stevemacdonald on Mar 27, 2009 17:28:34 GMT
One more thing that's in a voice is the healing qualities it possesses. Certain voices seem to convey a type of medicine more than others. Several years ago some bizarre healing miracles were attributed to hearing pop crooner Engelbert Humperdinck's voice. I don't recall the details but apparently his singing did the trick for some people suffering from some illnesses. Sounds like an urban legend, I know, but the reportage on it was sincere. Hayley's voice rids me of headaches on occasion and it's not just because I enjoy the sound she makes. It must be something else, some miraculous energy within. I'm not much of a believer in things "miraculous", so for me to come to this conclusion is remarkable in itself!
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Post by Paddy on Mar 27, 2009 22:05:54 GMT
I'm glad someone understood my quote...... 'Good also to see that someone else besides me appreciates Hayley's Diction (in the wider sense), as I tried to justify in another post in this thread. Even in its narrower sense ( articulation, enunciation), I rate Hayley's diction highly. An attentive listen to 'Hayley Sings Japanese Songs 2' can clearly illustrates that, I believe. But, best of all for me, the naturally expressive qualities of her voice seem to express and dramatise the 'spirit' or 'essence' of songs, even when, like Nemunoki, in a language I don't understand at all. Raises a good question: Do You Hear What I Hear?Some interesting juxtapositions here. As for my 'expertise', what encouraged me to express a view in this thread that I once held sufficiently strongly as to mention to Hayley personally (way back in the early days when she was still doing church tours) was that someone else made the assertion that this applied to them. Until now, as a matter of common sense as well as courtesy, I've been meaning to book an auditory assessment simply out of the principle that I need to know I am hearing correctly. Most people assume they do not have a colour receptivity problem unless, like me as a printer, they have a job that involves appreciating colour values so know that what you see and define as a colour is objectively accurate. As regards artistic licence, while the voice can be a wordless instrument (as Hayley has proved most excellently) if a song has words then the words are meant to be heard and understood. Why else write the words? This then leads us into that great inferno of opera divas (and I'm not thinking solely of Dante  )! Who on earth has ever understood an operatic aria, quite apart from the fact that they are nearly always in a nonEnglish language? One might go even further and say the whole operatic world is nothing but exaggerated artifice as an excuse for creative sound. This then leads us into 'technique'. We have no need to make singer comparisons. Within the wide range of Hayley's opus there are songs where the words are enunciated most clearly and other songs where some contributors to this thread have excused the loss of words because of the vocal difficulties demanded in musical expression... something has to give. Is there a conflict, or is there something else that explains this paradox? As one who has not yet heard HSJS1 let alone obtained 2, such comparisons are meaningless, as for the majority here but that HSJS2 represents her latest product, such comments are obviously important. Is this because she is still improving or is this because of the nature of the vocal demands enable the extra clarity? Peter S. Hi again, Peter, When I mentioned, Do You Hear What I Hear?, I was not at all referring to your hearing. My apologies, if you thought so.  However, of one thing I am convinced (especially from this thread): The Hayley each of us hears differs from person to person. Imagine! Each of us with our own 'Hayley' to sing for us! As regards the points you make, I agree that there can be a tension between 'the vocal difficulties demanded in musical expression' and clear and expressive delivery. But I've noticed the effects of that tension more in changes of words rather than loss of words; and more in mis-pronunciations than in poor articulation or enunciation. Indeed, the mis-pronounced words seem to me usually to be delivered clearly, as otherwise I'd hardly be likely to notice mis-pronunciations at all. Really, this discussion seems a bit like: "You say 'tomato' and I say 'tomáto'", as I think we're starting from opposite premises as regards whether Hayley's Diction and/or her articulation/ enunciation are 'poor' or credit-worthy. Apart from that, I agree with most of the rest of what you say. I wonder what has all this got to do with the stars that seem to come out, when we listen to Hayley! Paddy |
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Post by Paddy on Mar 28, 2009 0:10:15 GMT
One more thing that's in a voice is the healing qualities it possesses. Certain voices seem to convey a type of medicine more than others. Several years ago some bizarre healing miracles were attributed to hearing pop crooner Engelbert Humperdinck's voice. I don't recall the details but apparently his singing did the trick for some people suffering from some illnesses. Sounds like an urban legend, I know, but the reportage on it was sincere. Hayley's voice rids me of headaches on occasion and it's not just because I enjoy the sound she makes. It must be something else, some miraculous energy within. I'm not much of a believer in things "miraculous", so for me to come to this conclusion is remarkable in itself! Maybe it's a 'scientific' miracle. Psychotherapists frequently use music for its therapeutic effects. For that purpose, special music is available to induce 'altered states' of mind (e.g. multi-dimensional music and music containing 'binaural beats'). Research shows that music can induce or alter brainwave activity and that different types of music induce different types of waves in the brain. Don Campbell wrote a book, The Mozart Effect, that explored the healing effects of different types of music. The full title speaks for itself: The Mozart Effect: Tapping the Power of Music to Heal the Body, Strengthen the Mind, and Unlock the Creative Spirit. Good value at the Price: Amazon.comAmazon.co.ukSo, perhaps being 'Hayley-wowed' has a scientific explanation after all? |
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Post by postscript on Mar 28, 2009 13:06:53 GMT
Hi Larry.
Don't worry about the technicalities. What sells is what people hear and decide they like.
The beauty of this place is that there are those who simply state that (but also usually add 'why') and those who can state it more technically which i often find challenging and developing my own knowledge. Which ever end of the scale one is at one can still participate.
Peter S.
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Post by texassteve on Mar 28, 2009 13:24:31 GMT
Rings bells from Kipling (Rudyard not the baker  ) in a critical essay but he may have been quoting himself. Shooting for a train, will be back. Much to attend to here and need more time. Peter S. Hi, Busy Peter, No, not Rudyard. There's something special about the quote (and each word in it), especially if you add this to it: 'My loud voice clears their moors'. Anyone with the expertise to assess Diction or diction would recognise it. I like playing games, Peter.  Paddy It has all 14 English vowel sounds within it.  |
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Post by postscript on Mar 28, 2009 13:32:52 GMT
No Paddy, You've got me dangling on the end of your string on this one! Even Google fails me, my last resort when my reference books fail me! Doubtless I shall kick myself from here to London for being so thick. However, taking the words individually I fully understand and agree with your gist. Ah, but of course, I earlier missed your response: It has all 14 English vowel sounds within it. 14! I thought there were only 7 vowels--now who is tweaking whose tail?  Peter S. |
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Post by postscript on Mar 28, 2009 13:43:27 GMT
One more thing that's in a voice is the healing qualities it possesses. Certain voices seem to convey a type of medicine more than others. Several years ago some bizarre healing miracles were attributed to hearing pop crooner Engelbert Humperdinck's voice. I don't recall the details but apparently his singing did the trick for some people suffering from some illnesses. Sounds like an urban legend, I know, but the reportage on it was sincere. Hayley's voice rids me of headaches on occasion and it's not just because I enjoy the sound she makes. It must be something else, some miraculous energy within. I'm not much of a believer in things "miraculous", so for me to come to this conclusion is remarkable in itself! On all this Steve I entirely concur. Having spent most of my life on an even keel of stolid equilibrium I am having to come to terms to a certain erraticism of mood, due to clinical but mild depression, brought about by the stress of a succession of terminal family illnesses. Mercifully stress ended before I actually lost my marbles. Other then when I turn by choice, Hayley is a better therapy than medicine (or drink!). Peter S. |
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Post by postscript on Mar 28, 2009 13:55:37 GMT
I think you have given a superb answer, Celtic woman.
There have been some interesting responses in this thread and I hope I have caused people to think of those qualities we sometimes take for granted or have difficulty in expressing, what is it that makes us stop and say, 'that is incredible'. This voice makes 'ordinary' boring.
I also think that such a voice challenges our perceptions, heightens our interest in music generally and draws us to research further, to learn more and therein suffer the anguish of increased critical faculties that makes anything short of our newly acquired perception unacceptable. Is ignorance bliss? I think not. There is an anguish to knowing, which in an oblique way brings us round to Paddy's tease: "He who would know aught of art must act, learn and then take his ease".
Peter S.
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Post by postscript on Mar 28, 2009 14:14:10 GMT
Hi again, Peter, When I mentioned, Do You Hear What I Hear?, I was not at all referring to your hearing. My apologies, if you thought so. No offence taken Paddy. Taking it in the meaning I perceived it I felt it was quite a valid point. Taking it in the meaning you apparently meant it I find it amusing. Peter S |
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Post by texassteve on Mar 28, 2009 17:11:50 GMT
No Paddy, You've got me dangling on the end of your string on this one! Even Google fails me, my last resort when my reference books fail me! Doubtless I shall kick myself from here to London for being so thick. However, taking the words individually I fully understand and agree with your gist. Ah, but of course, I earlier missed your response: It has all 14 English vowel sounds within it. 14! I thought there were only 7 vowels--now who is tweaking whose tail? Peter S. Oi (is that correct British English?) it was me who posted that... Don't tell Paddy, but I didn't really know. I'm just a superior Googler! www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/wells/blog0802b.htmAn extract from some distance down the page: I wonder if this was Paddy's source?  What? You didn't know there were 14 vowel sounds?  Then, thanks to Paddy, we have both learned something! |
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Post by postscript on Mar 28, 2009 17:32:41 GMT
Hi Texas Steve.
Oh it was your post was it? Sorry I got muddled in the fulsomeness of my old age!
'Oi' is a colloquial expression of someone who might call out to attract an individual's attention and in the context used is an acceptable 'tongue-in-cheek' touch of humour but not in the best of company.
I actually came across that URL but did not scroll down.
Peter S.
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Post by Paddy on Mar 28, 2009 18:37:39 GMT
No Paddy, You've got me dangling on the end of your string on this one! Doubtless I shall kick myself from here to London for being so thick. However, taking the words individually I fully understand and agree with your gist. Ah, but of course, I earlier missed your response: It has all 14 English vowel sounds within it. 14! I thought there were only 7 vowels--now who is tweaking whose tail? Peter S. Oi (is that correct British English?) it was me who posted that... Don't tell Paddy, but I didn't really know. I'm just a superior Googler! www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/wells/blog0802b.htmAn extract from some distance down the page: I wonder if this was Paddy's source? What? You didn't know there were 14 vowel sounds? Then, thanks to Paddy, we have both learned something! No! I didn't really have a 'source'. When I got the urge to tease Peter, I just remembered it (from a previous life). It never occurred to me that it would be on Google! Well, I'm not American, after all! Nearly word for word, except Google has 'nears' instead ot 'clears'. ('Never heard of those Google guys though!) Add ' My loud voice clears their moors.' and we have all 20 English vowel sounds (unless some more are 'invented'). Oi! Oi! Oi! "It was I." is 'proper' English; "It was me." is a colloquialism. Good fun though, while it lasted! Google on! Paddy
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Post by martindn on Mar 28, 2009 22:57:16 GMT
I would rather listen to Hayley than any other female or male vocalist on the planet. Larry I heartily agree with that Larry. But then I should ask which Hayley? Hayley aged 12 is very different to Hayley aged 15, or 21. Perhaps like me when you listened to some of her earlier albums you thought her wonderful voice could not be improved on. Then you hear another album or live performance and realise you were wrong. You must have been because the new one sounds better. And you are delighted and Hayleywowed all over again and you wonder how much longer she can go on developing and improving. Martin |
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