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Post by socalboy on Jan 8, 2009 23:48:46 GMT
Hello All, At the risk of reaching new heights of redundancy I am going to again post my ideas for Hayley to reach more people. As I see it this thread seems to dovetail into the Hayley in the U S theme. I'll proceed as if I'm correct in my assumption. The U S is big on nostalgia. Check some demographic statistics and you will find our population is comprised of many older people. These people are alienated by the current music prevalent in the States. They are hungry for a return to kinder and gentler times. As I have said many times before on this forum I think Hayley could find a niche in this area. People are tired of the bad girl images that so many of the current entertainers display. A nostalgia album with calm music from the forties, fifties, sixties, and seventies may do very well here. Most music here is targeted to the young people. There is a wealth of timeless music available in those time periods I mentioned. I could well be wrong, but it has worked for other artists . Michael Feinstein comes to mind. I can picture Michael at the piano and Hayley singing a Gershwin tune such as" Embraceable You". Well thats my two cents worth. Any comments? Larry: I think you read the time and the mood correctly. The issue as I see it is strictly a pragmatic one. Record stores are empty. Music sales (which declined again in 2008) are increasingly taking place online, and more than ever it’s a youth dominated audience that’s doing the lion’s share of the buying. I’m just not sure what label is going to go out on a limb for an album like the one you describe. Not saying it couldn’t happen, but we’re not exactly in an economic environment where record companies are looking for new risks. In response to my post in the “Telegraph” thread, Libby suggested that Hayley could write some of her own material. Though easier said than done, I believe this is the real insurance policy for any recording artist. If you can generate your own repertoire, you’re unstoppable. As I mentioned in that thread, this is why Taylor Swift, who at age 19 has already recorded two albums of her own compositions, was the best selling artist in the U.S. in any genre in 2008. Even with fairly pedestrian vocal abilities, her prolific song writing skills mean she’s not going away any time soon. If Hayley can find that inner muse – one she’s already developing – she may make threads like this one unnecessary. |
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Post by Libby on Jan 8, 2009 23:58:04 GMT
I am not saying that it is impossible for any of the songs to "hit" here, in fact an established artist might hit with one or more of them. However, IMHO no song on that album is a deal maker here based on its own strength. I agree. They are all very nice songs, but the songs on the albums she's released in the U.S. are much better. Summer Rain, Let Me Lie, and Melancholy Interlude do it for me a whole lot more than most of the songs on HSJS. Japanese pop is probably not going to be a big appeal to a lot of Americans. It depends on the audience, though. I think the only song on that album that would stand a chance, and should be given a chance here, is "I Believe". It's more than just a pretty song, and her voice shows more power and strength than her other songs. The most popular type of female voices in the U.S. are not pretty sopranos. Girls these days are usually trying to sound like Whitney Houston, Christina Aguilera, Celine Dion, Carrie Underwood, etc; the pop and country mezzo sopranos. |
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Post by martindn on Jan 9, 2009 0:04:05 GMT
Hi Libby,
The problem with Josh is he lacks Hayley's perfect pitch. He would sound out of tune alongside her.
But no, with respect Larry, I don't think that an album of old fashioned songs is the right way for Hayley to go. I think that one criticism made of Treasure/Celtic Treasure for example, is that the songs are too much alike (although really they are not).
I think Hayley's best bet is to emphasise the "crossover" aspect. So an album that includes classic, opera, folk, musical theatre, pop, gospel, even jazz would be good. Lots of variety, showing the real breadth of Hayley's talent.
I put together an album myself, culled from various videos and other recordings of Hayley's performances from diverse sources all over the world to play in the car, and I absolutely love it. The variety is fabulous, and nobody could ever call it boring, even if the sound quality is sometimes not as good as I would like. I think an album like that, not trying to sell different images of Hayley in different countries, but incorporating some of everything, would show off Hayley's versatility and could be hugely appealing.
With Hayley it is the singer not the song. Something like that would prove it, and might drag in people who never listened to her because they thought they didn't like the genre that is used to sell her music in their home country.
Martin
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Post by Libby on Jan 9, 2009 0:34:41 GMT
The problem with Josh is he lacks Hayley's perfect pitch. He would sound out of tune alongside her. I think that one criticism made of Treasure/Celtic Treasure for example, is that the songs are too much alike (although really they are not). I think Hayley's best bet is to emphasise the "crossover" aspect. So an album that includes classic, opera, folk, musical theatre, pop, gospel, even jazz would be good. Lots of variety, showing the real breadth of Hayley's talent. I think an album like that, not trying to sell different images of Hayley in different countries, but incorporating some of everything, would show off Hayley's versatility and could be hugely appealing. With Hayley it is the singer not the song. Something like that would prove it, and might drag in people who never listened to her because they thought they didn't like the genre that is used to sell her music in their home country. Josh wouldn't be selling millions of albums if he were as bad of a singer as you seem to imply. He may not always be perfect live, but he is always perfect in recordings. Anyway, it should at least matter to you that Hayley's singing with Josh would attract many of Josh's fans, particularly Americans, who do not share your opinion of his singing. He has fans all over the world, so it wouldn't just be Americans who would be interested. Regarding Treasure, the ones who say Treasure's songs are similar are probably thinking of Celtic Treasure. Scarborough Fair, Danny Boy, The Last Rose of Summer,The Water is Wide, Sonny, and Let Me Lie are similar in style. The UK Treasure has a larger variety of styles. But I love Celtic songs, so even if they are similar, it's okay with me! I love all of those songs! I said above that the Japanese songs album wouldn't be the thing to break the U.S. market. However, it would be very nice if she could include a Japanese song on her regular albums, hopefully on ALL versions of the album. I would like it if she would actually sing one in Japanese! If she can sing in Maori and Italian, why couldn't she sing in Japanese, too? The White is the Color of Love would be great, because it has a country/folk kind of sound that I think lots of people would like. Now, I've just realized that every song on Celtic Treasure is in English. I guess it would have to be in order to be "Celtic". Does Decca think Americans don't like Italian, Maori, or German songs?  I guess because of CW, they thought they had to make a Celtic album to appeal to her new CW fans? There's Italian in One Fine Day, though. |
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Post by larryhauck on Jan 9, 2009 3:43:12 GMT
Hi Libby,
I agree that Michael Buble and Hayley would be good together.
However I still think think Hayley's voice would be perfect for an album of all Gershwin tunes. I realize this would be very difficult to persuade her recording company, and possibly Hayley herself to do. But I think with the right promotion and it could work. Older folks buy albums they don't download.
Larry
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Post by ironman on Jan 9, 2009 4:48:25 GMT
The U S is big on nostalgia. Check some demographic statistics and you will find our population is comprised of many older people. These people are alienated by the current music prevalent in the States. They are hungry for a return to kinder and gentler times. As I have said many times before on this forum I think Hayley could find a niche in this area. People are tired of the bad girl images that so many of the current entertainers display. Well thats my two cents worth. Any comments? Larry Well Larry Im 22 and tired of this bad girl stuff so its not just old people. Im just so annoyed with it all, its like it never ends with these stupid people. Its really a relief to see something nice for once. I think thats why I really liked celtic woman. Hi Libby, But no, with respect Larry, I don't think that an album of old fashioned songs is the right way for Hayley to go. I think that one criticism made of Treasure/Celtic Treasure for example, is that the songs are too much alike (although really they are not). I think Hayley's best bet is to emphasise the "crossover" aspect. So an album that includes classic, opera, folk, musical theatre, pop, gospel, even jazz would be good. Lots of variety, showing the real breadth of Hayley's talent. I put together an album myself, culled from various videos and other recordings of Hayley's performances from diverse sources all over the world to play in the car, and I absolutely love it. The variety is fabulous, and nobody could ever call it boring, even if the sound quality is sometimes not as good as I would like. I think an album like that, not trying to sell different images of Hayley in different countries, but incorporating some of everything, would show off Hayley's versatility and could be hugely appealing. With Hayley it is the singer not the song. Something like that would prove it, and might drag in people who never listened to her because they thought they didn't like the genre that is used to sell her music in their home country. Martin I completely agree martin about Hayley doing like a crossover, I think variety is great. On her dvd I really like wuthering heights, it seems to have some rock style mixed in there. The mp3 I have of wulthering heights isnt that great but maybe that has to do with the computer vs the dvd players sound. I think having songs with sortof a mixed style would be a good seller. Hayley has a classical voice so I dont think her going country or rock would really work for her but thats where the sellers are in the US. I think a hybrid of classical and rock could put her into the country and pop areas which seem to be merging together. |
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skypilot
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Post by skypilot on Jan 9, 2009 9:38:35 GMT
To do that they need to advertise and promote it. Even with modern technology, to do the job properly yourself there is still a wealth of industry-specific details to master and manage. It depends what your horizons are. I think J K Rowling had five refusals for her first Harry Potter. Would she have made the £30 million she is reported to be worth if she had sold it from her kitchen table? Would we have the films?
Maestro, I agree whole heartedly with your comments, no promo equals no sale, and indeed the regular sources in the music industry have done that well..but now they are not alone. My daughter is a singer songwriter, and has markets in other countries, has venues set up for a North American tour for 2010 (some venues still to confirm availability) This is somewhat strange considering she is virtually unknown in her own country and has no airplay here either. This has been possible through a network of promotors and Team of supporters in those countries who have only heard her demo discs from a Tascam recorded in the loungeroom of our home, and promotion information sent by the internet. She has recently recorded her first album of songs and they will be commercially available later this month, But in the meantime, over 150 albums have already been sent to paying customers overseas since we recieved the product from the CD manufacturer just over a week ago.....now I know this is not mega sales, but we have over another three hundred waiting in the wings who are already promoting her songs and albums........all this without a retail outlet......its a nice start
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Post by Cherany on Jan 9, 2009 11:34:29 GMT
Let's say a one million dollar contract is signed for a five album deal. That means the record company have made a commitment to fund the production, distribution and promotion of five albums up to a maximum of one million dollars, every cent of which has to be paid back by the artist out of their share of the royalties until such times as it is paid back in full. Only then will they start to receive their share of the royalty payments. So, instead of receiving a million dollars at the start of the deal, the artist would immediately be in debt by that amount. Until such times as the debt has been repaid, the artist is dependent upon live concerts (and, perhaps, sponsorship deals) for an income. Ooooh, that makes more sense & is fascinating. I remember seeing the Dixie Chicks in an interview on TV once & the lead singer was saying, "People always talk about this million dollars... what million dollars? I don't have a million dollars!" They went on to say that they always knew CDs were only a form of promotion for performances which could actually earn them a living. I found it very interesting, but I still wasn't quite clear on how all of it works. Thanks for your clear explanation!  |
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Post by Cherany on Jan 9, 2009 11:46:54 GMT
Examples like Carrie Underwood may not be entirely fair. The ultimate issue is really name recognition and who has it - and it may be possible that Ms Underwood doesnt have to work as hard at getting noticed because winning American Idol took care of that for her - at least in the short term. Hmm, very true. Actually, one of Carrie's more recent songs is about "partying like a wild child", and her outift in the music video is a bit skimpy. I'm not exactly sure of the name, but it starts out saying something like "last night, I had a drink, blah, blah, and I got a little crazy".. The main line is "I don't even know his last name". I'm sorry, but I think this one is a very poor example to girls. It's trashy. Her voice doesn't even sound that good in it. My opinion of her has lowered since seeing this. The only reason I saw the video was because I went to the most recent American Idol concert, and they played videos like that during intermission. I wasn't aware, but I don't like the sound of that, either.  I hereby retract my original statement regarding Carrie Underwood as someone who has made it big without resorting to impure methods of attention-grabbing. |
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Post by Dean McCarten on Jan 9, 2009 11:57:38 GMT
Well Larry Im 22 and tired of this bad girl stuff so its not just old people. Im just so annoyed with it all, its like it never ends with these stupid people. Its really a relief to see something nice for once. I think thats why I really liked celtic woman. Hi Ironman, I completely agree, I'm also 22 and I feel the same about the bad girl image that are dime a dozen these days. Whereas Hayley is nothing like that, which is why I think that she appeals to such a wide range of age groups Dean |
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Post by Cherany on Jan 9, 2009 12:04:25 GMT
The most popular type of female voices in the U.S. are not pretty sopranos. Girls these days are usually trying to sound like Whitney Houston, Christina Aguilera, Celine Dion, Carrie Underwood, etc; the pop and country mezzo sopranos. So true. I often think of this, but I never thought how to put it into words. While I'm not suggesting that Hayley take up punk rock (the thought is laughable) or that Hayley's voice is like this singer, the lead from Evanescence has always fascinated me, in that she has a beautiful, high voice, and has worked with the same producers as opera singers, yet she is perfect for the role she plays in the rock band. If anyone has heard Emma Shapplin's music, it is another example of a beautiful, operatic voice, blended with a bit of rock & trance music. Again, I don't mean to imply Hayley should take up rock (I'm not even a fan of rock music), but further blending of genres, even more than she has done thus far, could be a fantastic step towards widening her audience. |
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Post by comet on Jan 9, 2009 12:11:44 GMT
This one is always worth repeating :
If you are at your computer, just send a request to your local or National radio stations,
Try different shows, some specialise in film music so ask for "Listen to the Wind"
Some shows specialise in "Broadway Musicals" so try a track from West Side Story"
Get your friends to send Emails too !
:2fun: And Now I must do what I have been asking you to do !
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Post by Cherany on Jan 9, 2009 12:18:48 GMT
I completely agree, I'm also 22 and I feel the same about the bad girl image that are dime a dozen these days. Well, you can add me to the list of young people who are tired of it, too. I'm 25 now & cringe at the women I used to admire when I was younger. Mostly skanks. (Am I allowed to say that here?) Now, I find myself saying, "Gross." What irks me far more, though, is the lack of talent in the field. I don't think I would mind so much if a girl was trashy by her own free will, but could attribute her fame to talent. In many cases, it seems the bigger the headlines, the less talent there is to back in up. I certainly don't have to name names; we can all think of two or twenty, I'm sure. As someone else mentioned, songs like Wuthering Heights, which show the power behind Hayley's voice, are far more likely to do well in mainstream music charts. It doesn't mean she can't succeed with other songs, but the soft side of Hayley doesn't scream radio play. I think if it were more of a pleasant surprise for new listeners buying her CD because they heard the big tunes on the radio, it would work to her advantage. A lot of popular singers that prefer to sing soft ballads on their CDs still put out more powerful and/or upbeat music for radio play. Beyoncé is someone who comes to mind, though I hesitate to mention her, because she's so far from what Hayley is. |
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Post by Cherany on Jan 9, 2009 12:22:26 GMT
This one is always worth repeating : If you are at your computer, just send a request to your local or National radio stations, Try different shows, some specialise in film music so ask for "Listen to the Wind" Some shows specialise in "Broadway Musicals" so try a track from West Side Story" ! How does one find stations like this? I confess, I never listen to the radio, as I'm extremely particular about what I listen to & just can't deal with someone else being in charge of song selection (my, it's a wonder I find new music at all - I'm very thankful for the internet!). I tried a little Googling, but I guess I didn't type in the right keywords, because it didn't get me anywhere. |
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Post by postscript on Jan 9, 2009 12:31:28 GMT
Hi Larry.
Your suggestion of Gershwin is interesting because it could lead into an acceptable zone of a genre I have previously suggested that i felt the lady could indeed sing the blues. In chatting with Al Gurr at Buxton for some reason I introduced this into the conversation. Naturally he was diplomatic but the gist was that she probably Could but whether she Should or Would were completely different scenarios.
For anyone remembering previous posts in which I said I did not like jazz I would remind them it may often be the singer and not the song!
Peter S.
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I guess because of CW, they thought they had to make a Celtic album to appeal to her new CW fans?
