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Post by martindn on Aug 12, 2009 21:23:37 GMT
Hi Peter,
Yes, I agree about the creativity. Sometimes when I'm writing myself, it seems that the words are coming beyond me. An example was one evening a couple of weeks ago when the words just seemed to pour out of me, and I didn't want to stop. I am sure I was being inspired from beyond myself. And it was all good stuff, it didn't need any revision (apart from spelling errors) afterwards. And I was told after the service that my words had changed someone's mind about something they were planning to do. I hope it was for the best!
And I think that probably happens to Hayley too. And some of her songs have a very personal meaning to me too. One example is "Flower" from HSJS which seems to sum up exactly the beautiful May day when I first met my wife Sue, when both of us were hurting from our respective broken marriages. So much so that sometimes I almost feel those words were put there for our benefit!
Perhaps this happens to many other creative people. But I find you can't force it, you have to ride the wave when it comes. Other times you can sit for hours trying to think of something decent to write. The times when it flows through you like that are very exciting. The times when it doesn't and you have a deadline to meet are frustrating.
Martin
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Post by Libby on Aug 13, 2009 4:47:27 GMT
She has wriiten most of the lyrics for her two Japanese Songs albums, and that is what I was thinking of. Since the Japanese songs existed first, and Hayley translated/wrote the lyrics, we can be sure that Hayley wrote her words after the melodies were written. We even see her doing exactly that in the "On the Wings of time" video. Since these compositions far outnumber the others of her own composition that she has recorded, this is what she "usually does". BTW I'm intrigued by the "Childline" theory of this song. It would certainly fit! Especiall the bit about cuts and bruises. Could beshe is thinking of talking to an abused child, perhaps over the telephone. Hayley did not really write those Japanese songs; the songs already had lyrics, she just used her own interpretation. Obviously, I know she didn't translate them herself. You don't actually think she changed the words, do you? And I was referring to "what she usually does" for her own songs that she wrote herself. The Japanese songs on HSJS 1 & 2 do not count. As for cuts and bruises, this could mean cuts and bruises of the heart, too, especially since she's singing about a broken heart. Yeah, I think we can pretty much ditch the "lover" theory on this one. That's not to say she won't write about anything like that in the future.
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Jillian
Global Moderator
Posts: 3,050
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Post by Jillian on Aug 13, 2009 4:54:12 GMT
I'm of the opinion that the best songs are those that don't have an obvious meaning -- then it lets you place your own interpretation on the lyrics so that they mean what you want them to mean. I'm sure that some of my favourite songs mean something completely different to other people who like them as well.
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Post by postscript on Aug 13, 2009 9:55:19 GMT
Hi Libby. That's not to say she won't write about anything like that in the future.
None of us know what we will ever write, despite what we set out to do. As Longfellow says "so come to the poet his songs, all hitherwards blown, from the misty land that belongs to the vast unknown." What happens (and usually the best) 'just' happens. Peter S.
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Post by postscript on Aug 13, 2009 10:05:39 GMT
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Post by martindn on Aug 13, 2009 22:44:10 GMT
Hayley did not really write those Japanese songs; the songs already had lyrics, she just used her own interpretation. Obviously, I know she didn't translate them herself. You don't actually think she changed the words, do you? Hi Libby, I think we know exactly what she did. The literal translations from the Japanese that I have seen are somewhat different from Hayley's versions. There are examples both here and on the official forum. Once she had the translations she had to make them rhyme and scan. And although I think she mostly kept to the concept of the original lyrics, she did use quite bit of artistic licence. Usually the result was a more positive and uplifiting lyric than the original. So the words are hers. She took an idea and interpreted it in her own way. And I think in every one of these songs that I have looked at in detail, improved it immensely. So please don't belittle Hayley's contribution. If it hadn't been for Hayley most of us would never have heard these wonderful songs. I don't think I would have been very impressed by a compilation album of the original Japanese versions of these songs. But Hayley's Japanese albums are, in my opinion, some of her best work. And that means some of the best music of its kind ever made by anyone! Martin
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Post by Libby on Aug 14, 2009 4:27:42 GMT
Nobody was belittling anything. My saying that these are not her original songs that she wrote all by herself does not mean I don't like them. I cannot see how you got that from what I wrote. Good grief, I can't say anything anymore.
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Steve H
Global Moderator
HWI Management Team / Official Site Photographer & Videographer
Posts: 1,756
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Post by Steve H on Aug 14, 2009 11:22:08 GMT
Hi All,
The discussion here is getting a little "off topic" which is not helping to keep the direction very positive, please can we get back on to the subject of Hayley's performance at Southend-on-Sea as this is the 'Hayley in concert board'
You are of course welcome start a new discussion in the appropriate board.
Steve H
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Post by martindn on Aug 16, 2009 18:08:27 GMT
Am I alone in seeing this? In this video Hayley's performance reminds me very much of another singer songwriter, albeit this girl was a guitarist rather than a pianist.. Someone who we know Hayley admires, with a clear soprano voice with excellent range. But perhaps best known as an influential songwriter. And for singing from the heart.
We've had to live with Hayley being called the new Charlotte Church. Could Hayley now be the new Joni Mitchell?
Martin
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Post by Libby on Aug 17, 2009 3:54:29 GMT
That's an interesting thought. At the very least, her singing songs like these will help people to stop comparing her to Charlotte Church. However, I'll be a little sad if she doesn's sing any classical or Celtic/Irish songs at all. I doubt she'll stop singing them completely, though. I guess she can't stop recording classical entirely until she's done with Decca, can she?
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Post by martindn on Aug 17, 2009 19:01:31 GMT
Hi L>ibby,
I hope she doesn't stop performing and recording her classical and folk music. I was reading today that many great artists refuse to be bound by the artificial limits of so-called genres. The article was about Bob Dylan, and applies to him too. It also pointed out that you don't need to be a good singer to be successful, and in fact Dylan was technically appalling. But since he was a fine songwriter, and so innovative, that didn't seem to matter.
Hayley is perhaps the opposite to that, in that for her the songs are I think a showcase for her fabulous voice. Whether that can sell pop songs, I'm not sure, but then people like Joni Michell and Joan Baez had a good voice as part of their appeal, so perhaps it can.
Another interesting aspect of "Talk to Me" is that it seems to answer a comment that I once made on this forum, that there are very few songs that fully show off Hayley's voice, particularly her vocal range. Perhaps, I thought, that was one of the reasons she chose "Wuthering Heights", it needs a good range to sing it. It occurs to me that "Talk to Me" too needs a good range to sing, there are both high and low notes in that song. It needs an exceptional voice I think.
Martin
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Post by Libby on Aug 17, 2009 23:39:41 GMT
in fact Dylan was technically appalling. But since he was a fine songwriter, and so innovative, that didn't seem to matter. Hayley is perhaps the opposite to that, in that for her the songs are I think a showcase for her fabulous voice. Whether that can sell pop songs, I'm not sure, but then people like Joni Michell and Joan Baez had a good voice as part of their appeal, so perhaps it can. It occurs to me that "Talk to Me" too needs a good range to sing, there are both high and low notes in that song. It needs an exceptional voice I think. Hayley is the opposite; that makes it sound like she's a fine singer, but an appalling songwriter. Of course I know you didn't mean that. I've realized that the reason the songs Hayley has written sound so perfectly beautiful are most likely because Hayley and her co-writers/composers have made the music to suit Hayley's voice and range, and nobody else's. Not that she isn't perfectly beautiful in other songs, though.
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Post by martindn on Aug 18, 2009 21:17:21 GMT
Hi Libby,
Couldn't agree more. I suppose I deserved your misinterpretation of my opinion of Hayley's songwriting. I'm sure you have read my other posts that make it clear that I admire her songwriting, and especially lyric writing talents. She has a way with words for sure, but we always knew that, and her linguistic skills are I'm sure part of the same thing.
But most pop songs are written to be singable by people with much less range and ability than Hayley has, in fact some seem almost to be all on one note, or have a range of about half an octave. This I think makes them very unchallenging to sing, and we know Hayley can do better than that. So since there are so few songs around that come close to doing her voice justice, Hayley writes her own (with help). This is a trend that I find really exciting. I find it difficult to think of one song that would convince somebody who doesn't know Hayley's work that she is the complete singer that we know she is. We know she can sing almost anything, and make it so beautiful that it takes your breath away. You can't encapsulate all of that in one song, but I think "Talk to Me" comes closer than most.
Martin
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Dave
Administrator
HWI Admin
Posts: 7,688
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Post by Dave on Aug 19, 2009 0:11:09 GMT
We know she can sing almost anything, and make it so beautiful that it takes your breath away. You can't encapsulate all of that in one song, but I think "Talk to Me" comes closer than most.Martin Hi Martin and everyone, I have an embarrassing confession to make. When I first saw and heard Steve's video recording of Hayley singing "Talk To Me" I was disappointed; it wasn't at all what I expected. Before uploading it, I mentioned to Steve that I'd have to collect a few other opinions before deciding whether or not to make it available anywhere other than in the forum... though I admitted that my opinion might change, as it was just an initial reaction. Well the "other" opinions were "upload it everywhere" so I did. And now, it really has grown on me, it's a beautiful song and a beautiful performance... I absolutely love it! The moral is, be very careful before judging a song on its first hearing... unless of course it's Hayley singing Pokarekare Ana! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif Talk To Me (click click!) Cheers, Dave
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Post by postscript on Aug 19, 2009 15:02:07 GMT
Edit: I've moved this post and Ben Mitch's reply to Benjamin Larham. Richard
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