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Post by milewalker on Aug 13, 2008 2:48:18 GMT
And if I may jump in with one more "technical" point... Women do not sing in falsetto-- only men do.. Hi Chantelle, The author cited below apparantely disagrees with you  He is deceased now - but he did hold a combination doctorate in voice and music......and authored several widely used textbooks. Is the female capable of producing a falsetto? Many books about singing totally ignore this question or gloss over it. A few state categorrically that women do not have a falsetto. This is difficult to understand; motion picture and video studies of laryngeal action reveal that women can and do produce falsetto....there are women who sing exclusively, or nearly so, in falsetto.....Be that as it may, it is an established fact that women have a falsetto and that many singers substitute falsetto for the upper portion of the modal voice.....it is so easy for contraltos and mezzos to sing in falsetto in the soprano range, even up to "high C" that they often are misclassified as sopranos.
The Diagnoisis and Correction of Vocal Faults: A Manual for Teachers of Singing and Choir Directors
James C McKinneyMy apologies to the mods for the technical diversion - but hey - I didnt start it! Jon |
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Post by larryhauck on Aug 13, 2008 4:36:53 GMT
I think you all should quit worrying about Hayley damaging her voice. It won't happen.
Larry
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Post by chantelle on Aug 13, 2008 15:02:43 GMT
Hi Chantelle, The author cited below apparantely disagrees with you He is deceased now - but he did hold a combination doctorate in voice and music......and authored several widely used textbooks. Okay, so women shouldn't sing falsetto, and most don't. Especially classical singers! (Still don't know that I'm concinced that women have a falsetto, but we'll leave it at that!) Personally, I think it's remarkable that Hayley retained the "pure," adolescent sound to her voice as long as she did. I really don't think she has damaged her voice... My semi-educated guess is that she has probably purposely kept her voice from changing for as long as possible (because she knows her fans like that boy-soprano sound!), and now that she can't help it, the change is more drastically noticeable than if it had taken place over a course of years. (Most female voices change around 13, 15, 18, 21, and on until about 30, where, as milewalker said, it lenghthens to about 5 year changes.) I don't know about Hayley becoming a mezzo... (sorry Tashi!) but she is certainly going to have a meatier, "bigger," (that's such a loose, subjective term) voice because that's what happens as the human voice matures! Kathleen Battle, Dawn Upshaw, Diana Damrau, and Natalie Dessay certainly can't be called heavy, dramatic sopranos, but I'm sure if we could have heard them sing at 16 years old, they would have had a much lighter sound than they do now! (Okay, sorry for the ramble. Feel free to ignore my two cents worth, there  ) |
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Post by stevemacdonald on Aug 15, 2008 18:45:47 GMT
I think you all should quit worrying about Hayley damaging her voice. It won't happen. Larry Agreed. But there is the legitimate concern that she could overuse it -- or the portion of it she deems most pleasing to her public -- such as her easy-listening range. Just because it's easy to listen to again and again doesn't mean it's easy to produce over and over. Hayley won't damage her voice but she may unconsciously be moulding it to serve the interests of her fans, and that would be a mistake if taken too far. The younger crossover stars are acutely aware of what pleases the taste of their typically much older fans, and this attempt to please makes them try too hard. I just don't want Hayley to try too hard. She's got at least 3o more years ahead as a quality singer if she paces herself appropriately and doesn't inadvertently pander to the preferences of those who found her first. |
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Post by comet on Aug 15, 2008 19:17:22 GMT
Hi Steve, folks in general. Anyone who goes to Hayley's concerts will tell you , Hayley usually sings three songs in her first set, 10 to 15 minutes, then the musicians or the orchestra play 2 or 3 tunes or pieces Hayley returns to the stage for another three or 4. There is usually an interval of 15 to 20 minutes. Hayley then does another three, the musicians do two or three without Hayley. Hayley returns and does three more, thanks everyone and bids them goodnight and then often does one more as an encore, On very special nights or occasions Hayley might sing a second encore. Usually a total of thirteen songs within a two hour time frame ! Hayley always seems to have spring water at the ready and sips in a polite manner between songs. So Hayley sings about 30 minutes out of every 60. Also some songs have nice instrumental breaks in them, long enough for a sip of water or a gentle stroll around the stage. There is a possibility we think Hayley spends all her time singing just because we spend so much of our time listening to her  |
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Post by grant on Aug 15, 2008 19:35:29 GMT
Hayley won't damage her voice but she may unconsciously be moulding it to serve the interests of her fans Hi Steve I believe Hayley is well aware of the risks she may face, but I don't think she would ever do anything 'unconsciously'. Whatever decisions she takes about her style/voice will be well thought out and the benefits/pitfalls considered beforehand. Best wishes Grant |
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Post by stevemacdonald on Aug 15, 2008 20:16:21 GMT
Hi Steve I believe Hayley is well aware of the risks she may face, but I don't think she would ever do anything 'unconsciously'. Whatever decisions she takes about her style/voice will be well thought out and the benefits/pitfalls considered beforehand. Best wishes Grant That's very optimistic and I hope it's the case. She performs for many of the same people on a fairly frequent basis. She appears to know many of them by name. I suspect this wonderful fan loyalty does set her up, however slightly, to play to their wishes as expressed through applause and post-concert feedback. Because so many of her habitual concertgoers have been around her for a few years, she probably has an accurate read of what they would prefer. The unconscious part I mention is maybe no more than her basic intuitive insight into what's wanted of her. |
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Post by Richard on Aug 16, 2008 7:58:29 GMT
This thread has turned into a discussion about Hayley, so why is it on the Other Music board?  Richard  |
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Post by stevemacdonald on Aug 16, 2008 15:10:08 GMT
This thread has turned into a discussion about Hayley, so why is it on the Other Music board? Richard That's scary!  I guess when you're a fan it's hard not to talk about Hayley, regardless of the topic. But to steer us back, let me list the five most frightening things about crossover: 1. Its penchant for taking perfectly good English songs and turning them Italian 2. its penchant for taking perfectly good Italian songs and turning them English 3. its penchant for turning great classical singers into questionable pop singers 4. its need to piggyback on classical charts and classical award ceremonies rather than stand up and be counted as a genre unto itself 5. its failure to make its best female singer (someone we all know and love but won't mention further in this "other music" board) a household name in the US |
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Joe
Administrator
Supporting Hayley since 2003!
Posts: 6,715 
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Post by Joe on Aug 16, 2008 15:37:14 GMT
I like the crossover genre because of the variety of material that is performed. There may be a Strauss waltz set to words, an operatic piece, a Broadway tune, a cover of a pop song, Gregorian chant, blues instrumental. It's scary because it works well. |
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Post by milewalker on Aug 16, 2008 22:57:05 GMT
This thread has turned into a discussion about Hayley, so why is it on the Other Music board? Richard Hi Richard, Suppose I wanted to title a thread "Does the classical crossover genre put young voices at risk?" Obviously, the topic has a potential connection with Hayley, but it also has a potential connection with several other singers. As this forum is constructed, if I put the question under "other music" and we discuss Hayley, the discussion is off topic. But if I put the same question under "miscellaneous" and we discuss Connie Talbot or Becky Taylor it is also off topic. The problem is that either singer is a legitimate topic of conversation given the question. Jon - making his post number 666 particularly diabolical |
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Post by larryhauck on Aug 17, 2008 0:15:29 GMT
Steve,
I think Hayley is mature enough to handle her career. In every interview I have ever seen with her she was adamant about the care of her voice.
Larry
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Post by milewalker on Aug 17, 2008 0:58:56 GMT
Hello Steve and Roger, We can add this to Steve's list of scary things: 6. It's penchant for taking younger and younger singers and requiring them to sing more and more vocally challanging material. www.babysoprano.com/Jon |
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Post by Richard on Aug 17, 2008 8:31:28 GMT
Hello Jon! Now that's really scary!  My previous post was only for fun, and Steve added the perfect punch line in his reply. I appreciate that Hayley is bound to be discussed in topics of this nature, so it's impossible to keep on-topic and off-topic subjects separate at all times. Carry on folks! Best Wishes, Richard |
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Post by martindn on Aug 17, 2008 13:14:09 GMT
1. Its penchant for taking perfectly good English songs and turning them Italian 2. its penchant for taking perfectly good Italian songs and turning them English 3. its penchant for turning great classical singers into questionable pop singers 4. its need to piggyback on classical charts and classical award ceremonies rather than stand up and be counted as a genre unto itself 5. its failure to make its best female singer (someone we all know and love but won't mention further in this "other music" board) a household name in the US 1. Katherine Jenkins wasn't it? 2. That might have been Katherie too. 3. Charlotte Church? But she ruined her voice with too much riotous living. She has seen the error of her ways now, but it's to late to go back. 4. This is my bugbear, Since radio stations are wedded to this concept of "genre", the only way to get your music played is to fit into one of them. True crossover basically doesn't. And if I think about it, it has always been my favourite music.* 5. See 4. * There have been others who didn't fit. But they got played. Or they sold even if they didn't. So-called "progressive rock" in the early 1970s got played, even though it was a crossover between either "Jazz and rock" (Pink Floyd, think hoe successful they were) or "Classical and Rock" (Yes, Renaissance, Moody Blues). Or the refusal of the BBC to play "pop" music in the early 1960s, which resulted in that market gap being filled by offshore "pirate" radio stations for several years. We were ahead of the game them, and we are now with Hayley. Her problem is that her music is all new, whilst appearing to be old. Perhaps she is a new "genre", but whatever the taxonomists decide she is, she is a fabulous singer and deserves to be promoted. Taxonomy, or its failings, should not be used as an excuse for ignoring her, even if perhaps the real reason is her unfashionable philosophy and world view (one which incidentally, I and several others here share). Those who cannot live up to those standards hate to be reminded of the fact, athough reminding them is perhaps the best thing that could be done for them. Martin |
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He is deceased now - but he did hold a combination doctorate in voice and music......and authored several widely used textbooks.
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