Favourite Animals

[postscript]

andrew said:

Hi Peter,

Indeed this is an interesting thread... As you are somewhat of a literary scholar, I wonder if you had George Orwell's 'Animal Farm' in mind when you asked us this question? I know we shouldn't start getting too political in this thread in order to try to maintain "https://i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gifecorum on the Forum", but one phrase which springs to mind from 'Animal Farm' is:

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

Incidentally, at the beginning of my academic year at university, the head of the department asked us whether we were "hard working goats or wandering sheep" ... I'll get back to you about my favourite animal after I've had a bit of a think!

Regards,

Andrew

You raise an interesting point there, Andrew, and 'no' I did not have Animal Farm in mind. However, you intimate how diverse this thread could become. For instance, do people see other people as having 'animal' characteristics? Or see people 'as animals', let alone the nature of their liking for animals, domestic or wild.

I can't recall if it derived from 'Fred', a strip cartoon in perhaps The Daily Express but there is a well-known cartoonist who drew animals who either looked like their owners or the owners chose dogs looking like them!

There is a young lady of my long acquaintance (the daughter of a friend, recently a mother for the first time) who is extraordinarily petite. For some reason when ever i see her I have always thought of her as the dormouse in Alice in Wonderland. She has a very bony face which makes her look like a hamster nibbling when she laughs, which she does frequently. I remember when she was very young and we were queuing for fish and chips and lifting her up on the counter so she could see behind it and noticing her legs.

'Good lord, girl, what on earth has happened to you, you're all battered and bruised!' This was many years ago, long before a general awareness of concern for child abuse was more lively. Her legs were quite literally black and blue and scratched.

She dismissed her bruises as due to climbing trees but although i was confident of her parents, I wanted to know how her bruises had been acquired.

She went through a list of what day and which tree she had scratched herself on, including the dog having jumped up at her and its claws scraping down her leg. Then she inadvertently drew the attention of the entire shop to this 'battered' child by saying, '...and that big yellowing bruise there on my shin is where mummy hit me with the poker!'

'She did what?'
' Well, she didn't mean to. She was raking the ashes in the grate and the poker jammed. She was yanking at it just as I came up behind her to ask her something, when it came free and the end hit my shin. Gosh! That didn't half hurt!'
'I'll bet it did!'

From which history you may gather this was quite a tom boy. Therefore, what sort of job do you think this 'smaller than Hayley' does? She's a prison warder... and quite capable of looking after herself if she had to!

There was an amusing little incident on her training course which was a mixed sex group. Part of the fitness aspect was a cross-country run and her little legs weren't carrying her fast enough. She had become something of a mascot to the group, so two of the bigger men suddenly grabbed hold of her at each side, lifting her up by her arms and carried her a considerable distance while they did the running for her!

During her college years she kept a rat--on her at all times, except perhaps when sleeping or in the shower. It used to hide inside her jumper and would occasionally poke its head out of the collar or run out of a sleeve.

She was brought up in a gloriously eccentric family. The step-father and I were at college together and he met this widow (due to her husband being knocked down by a bus, so I always have to bite my tongue when i have cause to use that colloquial expression!) with two young girls, 3 and 5. When he introduced her to me one weekend i was staying over, I slipped my business card into the back pocket of her jeans as I left, having written on the back 'if it doesn't work out here's my number'! (UN)fortunately he had the wit to marry her!

I AM ON TOPIC! Their first home was a small manor house and she was concerned about being alone 'in the wilds' without a dog. He didn't like dogs but finally agreed on having a Springer spaniel, which he thought he could cope with while she thought an Alsatian more practical. So, they bought TWO Springer spaniels, because they were the last two in the litter and they didn't have the heart to leave one brother behind!

Having the two Springers he got used to dogs so agreed to a bigger dog as it was more practical from the protection angle. They bought an Anatolian Shepherd dog (like a German shepherd but with a distinctive curly tail).

A year or so later friends of theirs divorced and didn't know what to do with their English sheep dog. So, the guy who didn't like dogs ended up living with four of them!

Then, there was the problem of a family holiday which they hadn't got round to having for some time and they needed a muggins to house- and dog-sit... Guess who? Well, who wouldn't grab the opportunity of playing 'lord of the manor' for a couple of weeks in a delightful Jacobean manor sitting in eight or so acres of its own grounds? It was the standing joke: I came down at weekends looking the part of the squire while they paid the mortgage!

Shall we say that it was an interesting fortnight for all concerned. The 'all concerned' being:

• four dogs;
  
• two semi-wild cats (very good ratters but with the habit of leaving offerings on the staircase, so who ever was first down in the morning had to look where they were treading as they descended the stairs);
  
• the elder daughter had by then been bought a pony;
  
• several clutches of weird hens--they preferred the lesser known but older variety of chickens to help preserve tradition;
  
• a screech of peacocks (I've forgotten the collective noun for peacocks but that will do);
  
• and a gaggle of geese.
  

By the time they returned it was i who was in need of a holiday!

Peter S.
Addendum I forgot the headless horseman and the crying lady, who were also my companions. Interested in psychics as I am, I never met either. However, it was established that the part of the wall through which the lady disappeared by those allegedly seeing her had indeed been a doorway three centuries earlier.

When my friends first moved in, the younger daughter was often found on the stairs seemingly talking to herself but she claimed she was talking to the costume-dressed lady who passed by and certainly in that area the dogs were unhappy passing and were often found hackles raised and barking at that part of the wall.

As for the horseman, he hadn't been seen for years, galloping over a certain area of the paddock.

[postscript]

Hi Nicola. It was very interesting learning of your knowledge on cheetahs. You mention hyenas. Somehow the name isn't encouraging and I certainly have never looked on them as something to which i would feel an affinity.

You make a point that 'domesticating' may be necessary to help the species survive but that you generally don't like the princiople of 'domesticating' 'wild' animals. In general princple I agree with you. Elsa (the lioness in Born Free) was domesticated for a period as she was found as a cub still needing a mother but was nurtured into returning, successfully, to the wild.

Where people have had a pet leopard I think they have been unique circumstances, rather than indicative of a trend and I am thinking of occasions twenty or thirty years ago when there were not then the dangers now percieved for so many breeds, as you mention.

Peter S.

[Richard]

Thanks for the information about London Zoo, Nicola.

I have visited Colchester Zoo, but it's a long way from the town centre. There is another good zoo at Bristol, which has quite a few big cats and many other interesting species.

I'll have a look at London Zoo from the outside in the spring, then I'll decide if it's worth visiting and make a post. Watch this space, Roger! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif

Best Wishes,

Richard

[nicola]

Then there was the show about Wildebeeste and it showed lions eating one of them alive in a deep mud puddle without having first killed it. All romantic notions of lions as dignified predators went out the proverbial window with that horrifying spectacle.

Oh dear, Lions are NOT nice, at all! They are my least favourite of the big cats, not that I wouldn't be in awe if I was (safely) close to one. Lions are terrible creatures with the only redeeming feature being their play and pride unit. Lions don't only kill prey, they will always kill a Hyena, Leopard or Cheetah if it saw one and they wouldn't eat it. They'd just leave it. They do this to minimise competition for food, but when I watched two lions murder a hyena infront of its pack, put the corpse in front of them and walk away, you really do realise how brutal these creatures are. Their pride isn't very secure either. A pride is about one-three lions, about five Lionesses and usually a few litters of cubs. The head of this pride is the male lion. The thing about this is as soon another lion wants to take over the pride, attacks the dominent male, and succeeds, it kills ALL of the cubs. There can be about 15 cubs and he will kill them all. They will do as little work as possible. The lionesses do the hunt, but if they spot someone elses kill, they'll just take it, and who's to stop them? (unless it's a pack of Hyenas).

As for not liking them because they can kill humans? They kill us for the same reason they kill Leopards, Cheetahs, Hyenas etc. From their point of view, humans are very dangerous for them, and like the lone Hyena, will kill them - before the danger kills the lion. There is a misconception that animals that kill humans are bad. They are just following their instincts. I know we think we are special and are 'above' the food chain, but we are very much a part of it. Not only do we take their prey, we also take their land. Polar Bears, on the other hand, will kill to eat us. That doesn't make them a bad animal, they are just hungry! We are, believe it or not, a skeleton with meat on it. A Polar Bear isn't fussed, especially during the summer when they haven't eaten for four months straight! If there is any species in the world that needs their population controlled more than any other, it's us. If an animal is a man-killer, that animal is a vital part to the balance. I don't like the lions behaviour, but if they didn't exist, the Hyena's would have taken over Africa a long time ago. It's all about balance. Whilst the Cheetahs are not doing well in this, it's the survival of the fittest, I'm afraid.

Speaking of Hyenas, you said I mentioned them Peter. I don't recall doing so. I mentioned the African Wild Dog; did you assume the two were the same? They are completely different, Hyena's, to put it bluntly, are very ugly. The African Wild Dog is very beautiful.


(left: Wild African Dog, Right: Hyena)

I like these creatures because of their family unit. They are immensely loyal to one another, form deep relationships (they can have step-dads, foster sons, you name it, they adapt). They are often quoted to have 'The most complex social relationships in the whole of the animal world'. There are four in London zoo and they all sleep together (on top of each other, it just looked like a mass of fur from where I was standing). It was my favourite enclosure at London zoo and I stood there about 30 minutes looking at them (it took me ages to find them, they are in an elusive area of the park!)

Not to mention, they are so cute!

I have said Hyenas are ugly, I'm not going to take that back. They are relatively unattractive, and their actions do not leave much to desired (they always eat their kills alive), they bully other animals (including Lions if their number is big enough). Their idea of fun is to taunt any other predator. They rarely kill, they just like to play, but if they are given a real opportune moment, they will (especially with Lions). A lone Hyena could kill a cheetah though, so it's never good when they meet. You may think a Cheetah could out run a Hyena, but Cheetahs can only run for about 10 seconds, whilst a Hyena could run full speed for about 20 hours. They have amazing stamina.


It's only when I answer threads like this completely offhand when I realise just how much I look into animals...

[postscript]

Hi fusiiier. A cousin of mine regularly goes swimming with dolphins in Cornwall. Interesting to hear of your interest in sea creatures.

The other night in a recap of various highlights in a review show, a very old clip was shown of a studio act with a sea-lion. It really played the part of another person. Very simply, an announcer came on supposedly to introduce a personality to find the personality was a sea-lion. It rose up to rest its front flippers on th podium provided for it and responded incredibly intelligently to the announcer, really appearing as if they were holding a conversation.

This, of course, opens up the 'old' but now quite prominent argument about circus animals and the training of animals to perform tricks etc.

On cats, I am sorry to hear about the death yours and i do understand how emotional this is. A friend of mine has a cat which they know for a fact is at least 17 years old and could be 19. Quite old for a cat. When ever i am left to look after it, I am always reminded where to put her if she dies on me. She's given some scares but somehow still manages to live a happy and healthy life.

There will be great trauma when she finally goes. On the other hand, they have just acquired a dog, so there will be some slight compensation and the dog is already a part of the family. Even I would miss it now, although I only visit.
Peter S.

[nicola]

On cats, I am sorry to hear about the death yours and i do understand how emotional this is. A friend of mine has a cat which they know for a fact is at least 17 years old and could be 19. Quite old for a cat. When ever i am left to look after it, I am always reminded where to put her if she dies on me. She's given some scares but somehow still manages to live a happy and healthy life.

If the Cat wants to die (better wording is 'if it knows it's dying'), I doubt you will be able to put it anywhere. They know when it's going to happen and find a very elusive place to die on their own away from their owners. A lot of cat owners never find their cats and assume they've gone missing when in fact they have found themselves a hiding place and have died peacefully.

I didn't know dogs did this, but when Cassie died in July, she found a spot to die, it wasn't a good place, but it was the best she was going to find. We picked her up and took her to the vets instead for euthanasia so her death could be painless. I went in with her to have her injected and words cannot describe how difficult it is to watch your loving pet you have had for 15 years about to be injected with something that you know will cause you never to be together again. It's an experience that will never leave me and it always makes me cry just thinking about it. It was so traumatic picking her up otherwards when her body was just lifeless. It lolled around - I know this is obvious, but it's such a bizarre and upsetting sensation. I'm depressing myself now.

[postscript]

A very interesting item of information, Nicola. Thank you.

Peter S.

[postscript]

Superb pictures Graeme and thanks for the quotation. Very interesting. I wonder how far that association of birds being associated with noble values can be extended.

Peter S.

[postscript]

Yes, Steve, while some people may be overly sentimental I don't think the majorty of those waxing lyrically over animals do so without a serious realisation of what dangerous predators they are. What we admire is the beauty of their shape and form. They are part of the wholeness of Creation. Perhaps, one day, the lamb may indeed lay down side by side with the lion, as originaly intended and the Lord will feed both without a death of anything.

This 'sentimentality' I think is part of that yearning for the beauty of divinity that was the original source of all Creation and which Man's arrogance, or self-interst, over-rode and from which Man banished himself.

Peter S.

[grant]

richnorri said:

Thanks for the information about London Zoo, Nicola.

I have visited Colchester Zoo, but it's a long way from the town centre. There is another good zoo at Bristol, which has quite a few big cats and many other interesting species.

I'll have a look at London Zoo from the outside in the spring, then I'll decide if it's worth visiting and make a post. Watch this space, Roger! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif

Best Wishes,

Richard

Hello Richard and Roger

Not been to London Zoo in ages so count me in if you do decide to go.

Best wishes
Grant

PS Haven't been ignoring this thread, but I'm having to use my local library for internet access for a while so my posting is severely restricted!!

[roger]

Hi Richard and Grant,

Okay, we will definitely meet up for a day at London Zoo, perhaps some time during the summer. Anyone else care to join us? Maybe we could make it mini HWI Gathering!

Roger

[Martin]

nicola said:

As for animals that I possibly don't like (or like less than others) are domestic cats. I'm not biased here. I have owned one dog, and three cats and I loved the dog more than the three cats put together. Cats are so detached. They hunt just to kill and not eat. They are fickle (they'll go to not whoever gives them the most TLC, but who gives them food). They also just don't tolerate anything other being but their owners and themselves.

I once read a quote: 'Thousands of years ago, Cats were worshipped like Gods. Cats have never quite forgotten this.' That sums it up, really.

Hi Nicola

I'm a cat person and always have been since having a cat for sixteen years whilst I was a child growing up. I agree with everything you say on cats but alas I got and still do get great pleasure from the species. Perhaps that says something about my personality!

I recently looked after my daughter's two kittens over Christmas and I had forgotten how demanding they can be at this age. At the end of the holiday I was quite exhausted! More so than when my two children were at that age.

Out of interest did you see (and enjoy) the "Cats" musical by Andrew Lloyd Webber?

Best wishes
Martin

[Martin]

roger said:

Hi Richard and Grant,

Okay, we will definitely meet up for a day at London Zoo, perhaps some time during the summer. Anyone else care to join us? Maybe we could make it mini HWI Gathering!

Roger

Hi Everyone

Count me in.

On a separate note (perhaps thread), is there an animal that reminds you of Hayley? I can think of several but the Dolphin immediately comes to mind - sleek, friendly, fun-loving and extremely family orientated (I believe it is also known to sing!).

Best Wishes
Martin

[postscript]

martin said:

roger said:

Hi Richard and Grant,

Okay, we will definitely meet up for a day at London Zoo, perhaps some time during the summer. Anyone else care to join us? Maybe we could make it mini HWI Gathering!

Roger

Hi Everyone

Count me in.

On a separate note (perhaps thread), is there an animal that reminds you of Hayley? I can think of several but the Dolphin immediately comes to mind - sleek, friendly, fun-loving and extremely family orientated (I believe it is also known to sing!).

Best Wishes
Martin

Very interesting idea--both of them!
So

• Count me in regarding Zoo, I haven't been for a long time either!
  
• Dolphin sounds fun for Hayley and she does like swimming, looks like a good suggestion. Being more land animal orientated gazelle comes to my mind BUT, rather like my friend's daughter, the prison officer, slight, petite 'though she is, I've a feeling Hayley could give a good account of herself if she had to, too, whereas a gazelle wouldn't, it would just flee! Not a Hayley trait.
  

Peter S.

[Martin]

postscript said:

Count me in regarding Zoo, I haven't been for a long time either!

Peter S.

Hi Peter

Are you sure? Have you forgotten the text underneath your avatar?

Martin