|
|
Post by Stephany on Apr 21, 2007 4:16:10 GMT
Hi Jon, Many thanks for the interesting review. Love or hate, Hayley ? I can understand the author's point of view although I'm biased because I'm on the "love" side.  I agree with him on the "Treasure/Celtic Treasure" issue, it's too bad they had to remove beautiful songs like "E Pari Ra" to make the CD more...Celtic. Anyway, thanks again for the review Jon - we are closer than ever to reaching the 30 reviews ! I have to count them again, haha. Best wishes, Stephany |
|
|
|
Post by milewalker on Apr 21, 2007 7:09:38 GMT
Hi Stephany
The review also makes mention of the fact that he found her difficult to review. I have noted this before with other artists who do a limited number of things but do them very well. If one is already a fan, and already is entranced by Hayley, Celtic Treasure isnt going to change that - in fact it may even help strengthen or deepen the bond. This being said, a case also could be made that it doesnt do a lot to broaden that base - which in turn could become a bigger issue down the road.
In this case, the reviewer may also have a point about the song selection on Celtic Treasure. The marketing angle in the US seems to be to tie the release with the Celtic Woman tour - and as far as such angles go, that isnt a bad plan. This being said, it is still a commercial compromise, producing a CD of arguably lesser artistic merit.
A quick count right now gives me 29 - it is harder than it looks because there might be a duplication or two in there somewhere I didnt see. If the attempt here is to make this actually unbiased though, I would discount the reviews from sites like Amazon which are after all there to sell records.
Jon
|
|
|
|
Post by Stephany on Apr 21, 2007 7:41:07 GMT
Hi Jon,  You are absolutely right - I understand why Hayley can be difficult to review because technically, it seems that she's close to perfection; she's very good at what she's doing but if the reviewers don't appreciate classical crossover in general, or simply Hayley's music, they can only see her work negatively. Overall, it's only a different of taste. I agree with you on removing the Amazon reviews - they are probably biased as they're here only to increase the sales. We should be patient then and wait for new reviews to surface on the net. Best wishes, Stephany  |
|
|
|
Post by grant on Apr 21, 2007 8:22:29 GMT
From allmusic.comReview by James Manheim .... Westenra tends to sound the same whatever she sings... So I wonder how he would have reviewed "Treasure"? As he seems to prefer it. Love or hate seems a bit strong too - I would usually reserve such a comment for something like Marmite  Several people I know seem to think that Hayley sounds the same whatever she sings - I usually tell them to listen more carefully  Best wishes Grant |
|
|
|
Post by Stephany on Apr 21, 2007 16:27:00 GMT
Hi everyone, Patience paid off - a new review for "Celtic Treasure" has been published by The Sunday Herald Sun. Sadly, it isn't very positive. Best wishes, Stephany [/b] Celtic Treasure - Hayley Westenra
(Decca/Universal) Hayley Westenra needs sage advice. Urgently. She should be told it is a serious cultural crime to murder an operatic aria, such as she has perpetrated on Puccini's Un bel di, the pivotal offering on this disappointing disc. It is no fine day in the illustrious history of Madama Butterfly that Westenra has reduced Cio-Cio San's soul-shredding aria, one of opera's supreme components, to a pallid ballad, bereft of the emotion the young, callously deserted geisha pours forth. Mercifully, it is Westenra's sole flirtation with opera on Celtic Treasure which, despite the title, offers only a handful of genuinely Celtic songs amid an otherwise mixed program as diverse as Scarborough Fair, Shenandoah and Abide with Me. Alas, the fold-out, difficult-to-read insert booklet contains no printed lyrics. [/size][/quote] |
|
|
|
Post by milewalker on Apr 22, 2007 0:42:08 GMT
In my opinion, This is actually the type of review that we can expect to see more of in the future if Hayley were to move any further in the direction of purely classical music. I think she has been spared the wrath of the classical purists to this point for two reasons. She really hasnt been considered classical enough -and in America she still isnt quite a big enough name to show up on their radar.
Jon
|
|
|
|
Post by milewalker on Apr 22, 2007 0:56:56 GMT
From allmusic.comReview by James Manheim .... Westenra tends to sound the same whatever she sings... So I wonder how he would have reviewed "Treasure"? As he seems to prefer it. Love or hate seems a bit strong too - I would usually reserve such a comment for something like Marmite Several people I know seem to think that Hayley sounds the same whatever she sings - I usually tell them to listen more carefully Best wishes Grant In the interest of fairness, a number of people I have tried to sell on Hayley say the same thing. When a large cross section of people seem to be making the same point, I am more inclined to take it seriously. This is the only criticism of her I have seen thus far that I fear may actually stick in the sense of having a long standing effect if she wants to increase her overall following. Jon |
|
|
|
Post by Stephany on Apr 22, 2007 7:00:22 GMT
Several people I know seem to think that Hayley sounds the same whatever she sings - I usually tell them to listen more carefully Best wishes Grant That reminds me of a review I read a few days ago. The girl merely said the same thing about Hayley's singing. Source : Last FM |
|
|
|
Post by jons on Apr 22, 2007 13:23:04 GMT
To find the metascore you have to divide each review into three separate sections: The very positive review; the generally positive review and the negative review. A generally positive review is a 3/5 or if the review has a small amount of criticism. If there are thousands of reviews for Treasure out there you could say that if every 30 reviews gave the same average as the ones we have here, you can get a final score overall, without the need to look for every single review. On the subject of bias, the best reviews are from the fans. If you look at Amazon there are only three negative reviews for Celtic Treasure on there so far. Hopefully if your a fan and didn't like something of Hayley's you wouldn't force yourself to like it. From instance, when the placeholder for Hayley's new website appeared, I was disappointed: I didn't like the songs Hayley was singing. I wasn't really listening to Hayley's voice at the time, I was too disappointed and I wasn't going to say it was great when it wasn't. However, listening to the album proper, I found that I loved those songs - but only because Hayley was singing them. I listen to Hayley so intricately that I believe I'm getting more out of the album than a lot of people. So, hopefully all of us fans know what we are talking about, we trust our ears - it is not an illusion. The fact that people could say Hayley sounds the same whatever she sings is worrying. Are these people deaf? Its unmistakable how Hayley varies her voice. Nuff said!  |
|
|
|
Post by grant on Apr 22, 2007 13:38:10 GMT
. The fact that people could say Hayley sounds the same whatever she sings is worrying. Are these people deaf? Its unmistakable how Hayley varies her voice. Nuff said! I agree with you Jon, it is a worry, but the people saying it must believe what they are saying. However, they obviously don't 'listen' to Hayley the way we do. On the other hand, our voice only changes when we make it, either by emotion or fear etc. This is exactly what Hayley does on Treasure. I guess if you don't follow a particular singer, you may listen at a shallower level and just hear the tone of voice. Don't know whether I'm making much sense, but I would like to understand where some of these people are coming from. Best wishes Grant |
|
|
|
Post by jons on Apr 22, 2007 14:27:39 GMT
You are making sense Grant.
I suppose you can't force someone into hearing Hayley the way we hear her. But when they listen to 'Sonny' for example, what are they hearing?
What is odd is when I listened to Treasure for first time and I could hear all these subtleties straight away. But not when I heard the samples. The brain can play tricks on you.
|
|
|
|
Post by milewalker on Apr 22, 2007 19:42:05 GMT
Well Jon S
No it is not an illusion - however the appeal of a singer is subjective in the best of cases. There is a singer - and millions of listeners, all of whom are moved by different sorts of things.
As I have tried to say before, Hayley has become superb at what she does - but what she does covers a very narrow set of skills. She does provide some variation - but it is subtle. The congniscenti may appreciate it, but by your own account, you had to work to achieve it. A casual listener (and these account for most CD sales) simply wont want to work that hard to enjoy a song.
This being said there are vocal techniques which are employed to offset or mitigate this.
There is more to this than merely selecting a sparse and sad arrangement, and then varying the vocal dynamics slightly to produce a sad song, as Hayley does in "Sonny". There is a head voice, a chest voice, a throat voice, the way these are combined and the effects each of these have on the range of the singer. There is the amount of power the singer has available for each.
An interesting counter example is Brightman - who is widely perceived to have two completely different "voices"....which she often employs in the same song, for variation. If you listen to her sing "Its a Beautiful Day" for example, she begins with a "faux-operatic" delivery, switiches to a "faux-pop" style and then goes back and forth throughout the song. She does the same thing on much of her other work as well. While neither of these "voices" are actually good enough to garner her critical acclaim, there is enough variation there to appeal all the way from the dance hall to the concert hall. To a more limited extent, Russell Watson can do the same thing.
Jon
|
|
|
|
Post by Stephany on Apr 27, 2007 10:09:45 GMT
Hi Jon and everyone, I found a new review that could be added to the Metascore. Originally posted HERE. |
|
|
|
Post by jons on Apr 27, 2007 13:47:48 GMT
I agree with you there Jon - regarding Sarah Brightman. Seeing as you mention Russell, I recall watching ‘Enterprise’ for the first time (any Star Trek fans around?) and he was singing the theme tune ‘Faith Of The Heart’. I knew beforehand he was going to sing this song but what I heard surprised me: his voice was a gruff pop style voice and I liked it. And I like the Sinatra style voice on his latest album too. The differing voices are clear. In Hayley’s case, I do see a difference between ‘Pure’ and ‘Odyssey’ maybe not a significant one, but you can clearly tell the difference. If you have to work hard to like Hayley’s voice then maybe that’s true on a technical level, but what about a pure emotional level? When I listen to the first track on Treasure: Let Me Lie, the first glimmer of her voice sometimes feels like that breeze you get on your face when it’s a boiling hot day. (Yes, I know, I’m beyond help.) Hayley’s voice is soothing to me and doesn’t need any work to listen too. Is there a mind-set that we have to have that allows you to enjoy Hayley; is your mind a sensitive mind? Or is it a relaxed mind? In my case its not relaxed. Its definitely sensitive. You don’t have to be a certain age to enjoy Hayley, either.
|
|
|
|
Post by jons on May 3, 2007 14:46:28 GMT
Of the 30 reviews there are 19 very positive ones, 7 generally positive ones, and 4 negative ones. So the Hayley's Metascore is.... Drum roll please..... - I said drum roll not head roll!............ 63 percent very positive reviews!Or if you just throw out the negative reviews: 87 percent positive reviews!I think thats right.  Thank you to Steph and Milewalker for helping me with this and putting all the reviews together. |
|
