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Post by milewalker on Jun 24, 2007 0:53:45 GMT
Post 200. This is beginning to seriously worry me now. Is it from CW management and is it deliberate to drum up support and then (not deliberately but by default) make it appear it is Hayley who dropped out? Bedlam Management needs to clarify FAST even if that means scuppering CW management's strategy. Their and Our concern is SOLELY OUR HAYLEY first and foremost. Peter S Hello Peter As long as I have been a member of HWI there have been concert promoters announcing Hayley's attendance before being confirmed by Bedlam. In some cases they proved false. This is another example, surely? We have to wait for Bedlam to officially clarify. At Telford last Saturday Steve Abbott was obviously concerned and we must trust that he will sort the situation as soon as able. Martin This is a bit different Martin. The other cases were one-off concerts, where some degree of confusion can certainly happen innocently. This is a tour, and there are at least four cases now that I am aware of, which strains the credibility of it merely being accidental. One case can be random. Four is a trend. As I stated above, I strongly suspect that the management of CW is by nature much more aggressive that that of Hayley's. I suppose this does reflect some aspect of Hayley's personality as a whole which is actually rather a nice thing, but also worrisome. It is certainly possible that something along the lines of what Peter has suggested is behind this - but I would like to raise another possibility which is at least of equal liklihood. Suppose that CW did ask her, and that the response from her management was vacillating - I will note that even now, we have not heard a definitive "no", but a more hedging reaction like, "very unlikely". If this were the case, it would present a genuine problem from the point of the management of CW. It would be better if CW wasnt misrepresenting the odds of Hayley participating in this concerts. However, If they are planning a tour, and they would like for Hayley to headline it (and both suppositions are supported by what we are seeing), they do deserve at least a definitive answer. It might have been better had they received one several weeks ago. Jon |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jun 24, 2007 1:51:10 GMT
It would be better if CW wasnt misrepresenting the odds of Hayley participating in this concerts. However, If they are planning a tour, and they would like for Hayley to headline it (and both suppositions are supported by what we are seeing), they do deserve at least a definitive answer. It might have been better had they received one several weeks ago. It would certainly be better, Jon... but there may well have been very good commercial reasons for not concluding the negotiations at that time. As CW have no track record whatsoever in the UK, what puzzles me is what made CW management think they could fill large concert halls anyway? I suspect that the whole UK and probably European tour was provisional, pending a successful release of their latest CD and DVD but that the record company got cold feet, soft launched the CD/DVD in the UK - then the promoters got cold feet when the releases failed to make an impact. This would obviously affect Hayley's negotiations too and in this situation, I think announcing the tour when they did was unwise to say the least. Including the name of a participating singer (Hayley) with whom negotiations were incomplete just made the situation worse. I bet there were several contractual difficulties, bearing in mind that Hayley would have been the "big name" in the UK... unlike in the US. The whole thing seems to have turned out to be a bit of a nightmare for the two sets of management and the promoters and whilst I hope it can be resolved, it does seem increasingly unlikely as time goes on. The entire UK/European tour (as originally intended) may be in doubt, I suspect - not only Hayley's participation - unless I have missed something? If it goes ahead now, someone will be taking on a big financial risk and while I hope it happens and succeeds, in some form or other, I am glad it isn't me putting up the money!  Cheers, Dave |
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Post by fusilier23 on Jun 24, 2007 2:32:24 GMT
This does not surprise me. It is perfectly in line with the late announcement that Hayley and Meav would be switching off for the US tour which is now winding down, which, btw, I believe was no accident, though I tried to suppress over-discussion of the matter at the time for fear that would stir up trouble that would sour things before the tour got off the ground. I was going to chalk that partially up to the PBS stations, who have done that and worse in the past to solicit pledges that can't easily be withdrawn. However, two examples of this type of behavior in two nations make it clear that CW's management is willing to use unscrupulous tactics to drum up support and sell as many non-refundable advance tickets as they can.
It's been made 100% clear that Hayley isn't a full-time member of CW, and is doing this as a guest artitst, so using her name to sell tickets in the UK, where she is big while they aren't, is unscrupulous, especially in light of the fact that it's all but set in stone that she won't be part of the tour in the end. Baiting and switching tends to leave a bad taste in people's mouths, and could rebound to hurt Hayley's popularity in her strongest fan area.
On the other hand, Hayley has never pierced the US market all that well, and CW did give her some exposure she wouldn't have had otherwise. Alas, when all is said and done I do not think it has changed things very much. Maybe she must now return the favor in the UK. BUT, this is all speculation, and as with the US tour, should probably be suppressed till that tour is also winding down.
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Post by milewalker on Jun 24, 2007 6:03:00 GMT
Hi Dave and Fusilier,
I agree for the most part with your comments Dave, - one thing which concerns me also is what might happen between Hayley and the other members of the group should she elect to go ahead and do this. As you stated, her status vie a vie this tour would be very different - and in fact, she would be cast as something of the lead singer.
Having said this, everything you stated just compounds the problem which may be developing. From the point of view of CW, the only way they can succeed with a tour in Europe is if Hayley participates. Part of what is confusing you may be their perception that if Hayley partcipates, they possibly can fill larger concert halls, particularly in the UK. If the alternative is that their success is limited to the US, and Hayley is simply a spare part as far as that market is concerned, they have absolutely nothing to lose by playing hard ball.
Fusilier - I know this is speculation. However, it is generated by a very tangible problem which is occuring in the here and now- ie the fact that several concert venues are advertising Hayley as a participant could be a real problem for her. I agree that there is an unethical smell about this - having said that I dont know that the tour industry in particular is really known for warm and fuzzy kindness regarding its stars (or its audience for that matter) in general.
One thing which Hayley may need to develop is more business acumen. This is something most 20 year olds dont have to worry about at that point in their lives - and it goes further than standing up to her record company to include a particular song. In the case of Wuthering Heights, both Hayley and Decca were ultimately aiming to achieve the same thing - a successful release of Pure. The issue was how to best accomplish that goal. In the case of Hayley and CW, you have a situation where the goals may overlap at times, but CW will be looking at the success their own bottom line, and looking at Hayley only insofar as she is a tool to attain that. In some ways, I hope she really isnt as nice as she seems to be at times - or at least is capable of not being nice if the necessity arises....
Jon
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Post by Stephany on Jun 24, 2007 6:36:14 GMT
Thanks for your very interesting remarks Dave, Jon & Fusilier.
If it's of any indication, you must know that the CW management had previously planed to do 9 shows in the UK but they ended up doing only 6 of them (they cancelled Liverpool, Cambridge and Llandudno).
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Martin
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Post by Martin on Jun 24, 2007 8:43:11 GMT
The whole thing seems to have turned out to be a bit of a nightmare for the two sets of management and the promoters and whilst I hope it can be resolved, it does seem increasingly unlikely as time goes on. The entire UK/European tour (as originally intended) may be in doubt, I suspect - not only Hayley's participation - unless I have missed something? Dave Hi Dave I think you have summed up the situation exactly as it is. Indeed this is what Steve Abbott intimated at Telford. Unless I'm mistaken the sales of CW - A New Journey in the UK have been a major disappoinment (to date). In fact if what I've been told is correct then my copy of the cd represents 0.5% of total sales! Martin |
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Post by postscript on Jun 24, 2007 10:47:11 GMT
Post 210 milewalker is a thought I had born in mind but had not at that time wished to state. There are aspects of Hayley's personality which imply she likes to be spontaneous and does not like to be tied down which obviously ties the hands of her management. However, there is one 'positive' reason for such vacillation--is it that she is very reluctant to deny her All Blacks her support and since the nature of their playing determines uncertainty and none of them would wish to invite bad luck by presuming an outcome, that alone is the cause? However, regarding CW being possibly more aggressive. Perhaps 'more single-minded' might be a fairer description. Nonetheless, I believe before Hayley started touring with them in the US, we were criticising CW management for uncertainties and especially over the way they seemed to mismanage the Meav/Hayley relationship. At this stage we simply do not know and I don't think speculation in the dark (even if it is Green and Black's 'dark'  ) is helpful. Our help can only be at this stage to express our concern that things are not as they should be and would someone please get it sorted. Peter S. |
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Post by roger on Jun 24, 2007 11:03:28 GMT
At this stage we simply do not know and I don't think speculation in the dark (even if it is Green and Black's 'dark' ) is helpful. Our help can only be at this stage to express our concern that things are not as they should be and would someone please get it sorted. Peter S. Absolutely right, Peter, and that much we have done. I suggest we now leave it to those whose job it is and not risk antagonising the situation by publicising any errors that *may* have occurred. As Peter says, we do not know all the details and there is no reason why we should. Roger |
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Post by Stephany on Jun 25, 2007 6:46:12 GMT
From The Birmingham Post :
[/color], it's billed as the Riverdance of voices. I can't imagine anything worse. This is probably the most distressing thing imaginable. Unless you're called Bernard Manning and you have just discovered you've been reincarnated as a black woman. [/size][/quote]
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Post by Richard on Jun 25, 2007 7:25:54 GMT
Hello Stephany!  I see Andrew Cowen can't even get Celtic Woman's name right, so it's a waste of time reading anything he writes!  Best Wishes, Richard  |
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Post by postscript on Jun 25, 2007 13:43:26 GMT
Your 218 post, Stephany is most interesting. It raises the concerns I earlier expressed about the care with which she handles CW and her Celtish interests. Many are inflamed by such associatons! The reasons are deep-seated and complex.
Peter S.
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Post by thomas on Jun 27, 2007 20:12:54 GMT
I bought my ticket for Duesseldorf two days ago. I hope they won't cancel the whole tour. Thomas |
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Post by Stephany on Jun 28, 2007 6:17:53 GMT
Hi Thomas, I also hope it won't be cancelled because I am also a fan of Celtic Woman and I would love to see their show live. By the way, I know that there is quite a contingent of Lisa Kelly's fans going to this Dusseldorf show. It should be a lot of fun  Best wishes, Stephany |
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Post by Caitlin on Jun 28, 2007 23:25:06 GMT
Hi everyone! As there had been some doubts as to whether the tour was to go ahead or not I emailed management and asked. The following was their response: Hi Caitlin
Thank you for your e mail to Celtic Woman.
There has been no change to the European tour dates and they have been confirmed.
Regards
John Flanagan
Celtic Woman
Dublin
Ireland <3 Caite |
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Post by roger on Jun 28, 2007 23:30:03 GMT
Yay, thanks very much Caitlin! No wonder you hold management status on this site! Roger |
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