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Post by Bamafan on Jul 20, 2012 21:43:46 GMT
CC for me doesn't really classify the music itself, as much as it does the performers. Because you can manipulate almost any piece of music to make it sound different. Case and point: What You Never Know. The original arrangement is very flowing and "classical" sounding, but Hayley's U.S. version is much more poppy and upbeat with the acoustic guitar & drums. So, while I don't think that any one song can be a CC song, singers can perform combinations of certain songs to make them a CC artist. Just my two cents worth. -Taylor i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jul 20, 2012 22:13:26 GMT
I have always maintained that the artifical division of music into "genres" is designed only to prevent people from listening to music that they might like. Unfortunately, the media buys into it. As someone who loves music, I refuse to be put off by the fact that something is classified into a genre which contains music that I don't enjoy. I am not a fan of Jazz for instance, but some so-called Jazz I can enjoy. Just not all of it. Every piece of music deserves to be judged on its own merits, not becuase somebody has "classified" it. It is as bad as racism, sexism etc. Well not really, because people aren't being hurt, but you get what i mean I'm sure. But it is certainly out and out stereotyping. For me there are only two kinds of music. Stuff I like and stuff I don't. And "genres" are no guide, since all of them contain brilliant or beautiful moments as well as absolute rubbish. Martin D Very well said, Martin! Genres are at best very rough guidelines, IMO, and crossed by far too many artists to count. Indeed, I would say it was a very rare artist whose work falls entirely within the definite boundaries of a single genre. To that extent, they are all 'Crossover' of one type or another. While I like genre as a very rough guide to help me describe an artist to other people, I only truly concern myself with whether or not I like an artist in my actual listening. I totally agree with you that it is an absolute mistake to value any genre categorisation over the skills and abilities of the musical artist in question. We like who we like. All else is background noise.
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Post by martindn on Jul 20, 2012 22:49:09 GMT
And you can't always base it on artists either. Many artists I know have done things Ilove and things I hate. Pink Floyd did "Wish you were here", my second favourite album of all time, and "The Final Cut" which I can't bear to listen too, it is so depressing. Perhaps only Hayley, among artists that have been going for any length of time, has never done anything I didn't like. There might be others though, I would need to think about it. The artist, or composer with classical music, might be a better guide to what you like than "genre". But it is not infallible.
Martin D
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Post by tireman on Jul 21, 2012 1:37:08 GMT
The best way to break the states is to get lucky.
Larry
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Post by Libby on Jul 21, 2012 2:10:52 GMT
I think we are making a bit of an assumption here, that Hayley is a CC singer. She is, but much more besides. She might break the states more easily and effectively in some other genre, such as Celtic music for which she is already best known over there. We all know that Hayley can sing just about anything. She is much more adaptable than most if not any other CC singers. So here is another question. Which genre should Hayley adopt in order to succeed in the states? Once she has achieved that, then might be the time to introduce her other music from the CC genre. Martin D Martin, she's already tried Celtic. And it did work. But since she's no longer with CW, this has slowed down considerably. The only new CW fans she'll get now are ones who are also new to CW and have just seen the NJ DVD. I don't think she should ever settle on just one genre just to please US (that's a pun, not shouting, LOL). If she does that, it should be because that's what she wants to do. Of course, I want her to succeed here more than she has. But not if it means she has to change who she is as an artist. Anyway, as I've said here numerous times, I love the variety she brings to nearly every album. It isn't her genre that makes me like her. It's HER. There are lots of CC artists that I don't pay attention to because I don't think I could honestly say that I am a "classical crossover" fan. I just happen to be a fan of a select few artists who happen to qualify as CC. That is all. I think your idea is very interesting and clever, Gordie. If we want it to actually happen (because it most likely won't), we might need to contact the management and/or record companies of these artists, and suggest it to them. Who knows, they might find it interesting too. But I don't feel too optimistic about it. And yes, Hayley and Josh would be a most excellent idea! A Hayley and Josh duet is what I've been waiting for for ages. And Elliot, you may enjoy JA more than Josh, but the fact is that Josh Groban is far more well-known here in the US than JA (and has a way better-sounding voice, but that's a matter of opinion, of course ). It would behoove Hayley more to perform with artists who are already pretty famous here, than it would be to just send her with a bunch of other unknown artists. If you join them with artists that are already pretty popular here, in their genre at least, that will help them a lot more. For Hayley, that could be Andrea Bocelli, Josh, or Michael Buble. I'm not sure if MB qualifies as CC, but Hayley's voice is excellent in that style of music, and he is very popular in the US, AND she seems to want to duet with him someday, so it would work great for her. If you want JA to be popular here, pair him with Sarah Brightman, or somebody like that. Youget what I'm saying? Anyway, Elliot, you're in the UK, so you can go see JA anytime you want. LOL
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Post by Libby on Jul 21, 2012 2:14:29 GMT
It would appear that I have made a serious mistake in that I indeed assumed Haley to be a Classical Crossover vocalist. I probably am equally in error thinking that Celtic music was a variant of the Classical Crossover genre rather than a stand-alone genre. I do not believe Celtic music is recognized by the Grammy Award people as a separate genre and without that type of recognition there is little chance that any artist associated with such a narrow band will break through the USA entertainment barrier, regardless of how talented they may be. I don't understand your statement that Haley is much more adaptable than most if not any other cc singers. The hallmark of being called a CC vocalist is precisely being adaptable enough to sing in almost any genre.......but just being more classical sounding than say a pop singing purist such as Lady Ga Ga. She is probably not the best example to use as she has the classical training and talent to be a concert pianist. In my opinion, Haley is just way to talented to be labelled into a narrow band of music. She deserves to be heard by a broader range of fans such as can be found with CC. Fans of CC travel through all genre and tend not to limit themselves to certain entertainers or types of music. I'm sure that is an annoyance to the purists and elitists which are often found at the extremities such as pure opera or exclusive rap. My comments are based on my own opinion and beliefs. I only wish to see Haley succeed in breaching the US bastion not as a deserving individual but rather as a strong represetative of a larger group of deserving artists that have dedicated themselves to bringing us the "beautiful music". You're spelling her name wrong.
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Post by Libby on Jul 21, 2012 2:19:31 GMT
The best way to break the states is to get lucky. Larry ...lucky enough to have crazy fans who try everything they can possibly think of to help.
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Post by Bamafan on Jul 21, 2012 3:13:52 GMT
The best way to break the states is to get lucky. Larry ...lucky enough to have crazy fans who try everything they can possibly think of to help. No kidding! Right on Libby. In fact, just the other day I convinced someone to get Paradiso! Cool story. -Taylor i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jul 21, 2012 8:21:23 GMT
Martin, The better artists being more versatile, I'd say it's all but certain that sooner or later an artist you otherwise love will do a song - or even an album! - that you hate. I actually consider that something of a mark of quality, strange person that i am! *** Libby, It's all about personal taste, of course Always will be with these things. If I were putting together a four person tour it would be the best singers - in MY opinion! - rather than the biggest names, which certainly means Hayley & Faryl for the girls. The guys I have to admit I am less a fan of in terms of recognised CC artists, but Jonathan Ansell does seem to be rather a cut above the rest. If pushed, I'd probably go with Rhydian second, as he has duetted with both Hayley & Faryl and sounded pretty awesome with both. Jonathan is probably better with Hayley and Rhydian with Faryl, but that works well for a show. They've all sung with each other at some point (And how I wish there was a vid of Hayley & Faryl singing together!) and they all can, which is important. That line up may not give me 'star power', but it would give me the raw ability with which to push for it. And that'll do, for me! On the other hand, if I were going for a 'known in America' line up, it would be Andrea & Josh as the guys and Katherine Jenkins & Jackie Evancho as the girls (Both of whom are hugely better known in the US than Hayley is right now!), so I guess it's swings & roundabouts!
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Post by martindn on Jul 21, 2012 17:30:47 GMT
How popular is Andrea in the states? I ask because if he is well know (and he deserves to be) an Andrea/Hayley tour would be fabulous. I might even be tempted to fly over for a show like that myself!
Martin D
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Joe
Administrator
Supporting Hayley since 2003!
Posts: 6,703
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Post by Joe on Jul 21, 2012 18:58:09 GMT
How popular is Andrea in the states? I ask because if he is well know (and he deserves to be) an Andrea/Hayley tour would be fabulous. I might even be tempted to fly over for a show like that myself! Martin D Hi Martin, Andrea is fairly well known, more than half I'd say. Any collaboration would certainly be welcome.
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Post by Bamafan on Jul 22, 2012 4:26:09 GMT
Yep. If I were to ask someone about Andrea, most would at least recognize the name. So, yeah, he's pretty well known. And it would be nice to hear another Hayley/Andrea duet! Vivo Per Lei, perhaps? Maybe one day.... -Taylor i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif
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Post by Richard on Jul 22, 2012 7:31:18 GMT
Hello folks! Andrea Bocelli recently gave a free concert in New York's Central Park, with Bryn Terfel and Nicola Benedetti among the guests. See this video from PBS: www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCQgLPHhy9oThe album 'One Night In Central Park' is still doing well in the classical charts. Richard
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Post by tireman on Jul 23, 2012 0:15:31 GMT
Hi Elliot, If the US is so much different than Europe then why have the Rolling Stones made it for 50 years over here?
Larry
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Post by Libby on Jul 23, 2012 4:28:46 GMT
...lucky enough to have crazy fans who try everything they can possibly think of to help. No kidding! Right on Libby. In fact, just the other day I convinced someone to get Paradiso! Cool story. -Taylor i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gifI would love to hear it! The best I can claim is that I got someone on the Josh Groban forum to buy an mp3 from Amazon! And this was just because she used the song Come, O Come Emmanuel in a music game, because she liked the song, so I decided to mention a beautiful version in Latin by one Hayley Westenra, and after some difficulty (she has video-watching issues), I got her to hear a clip on Amazon, and she thought Hayley's voice was "phenomenal". Then the next time she mentioned it, she said she'd actually bought the song! As it turned out, she already recognized Hayley from Celtic Woman's A New Journey PBS show, but I don't think she had anything else from her. So, I can't say that I introduced Hayley to her, but I did get her to buy something of Hayley's at least! After all the views my Hayley thread has gotten over on the Josh forum, it's quite likely I'm at least responsible for making people aware of her existence, and possibly gotten them to at least listen to her, too. I only get replies from people who are already familiar with her, but they may not have been keeping up with her enough to know that she had a new album coming out last year. I had Paradiso advertised in my signature there for months.
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