Dave
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Post by Dave on Apr 10, 2010 15:16:54 GMT
Hi everyone, I know Hayley isn't in any of the major official charts anywhere at the moment, but you never know, that could change later in the year when her new album is relaeased! However, chart watchers may be interested in some major improvements in the availability of main charts, archives, and genre charts such as the classical ones where Hayley is most likely to feature from time to time. US Billboard ChartsThese are available freely at www.billboard.com/#/charts?tag=allcharts and in particular, the Classical Top 25 is freely available at www.billboard.com/#/charts/classical-albumsand in all cases, top 10 archives are available going back a long way. Billboard appear to have changed the name of their Classical Crossover chart to " Classical Albums" (perhaps some time ago) because when you check the archives, all the classical crossover singers appear in it, including Hayley. Previously, classical crossover albums were excluded from the "Classical" chart. UK - Official Charts CompanyThis is even more exciting for chart watchers, because previously most of the information that now available freely on their newly re-launched website, was available by subscription from Music Week. And some of the "free" charts are longer than the paid-for charts! For example, the entire top 40 Classical Artist albums are available here: www.theofficialcharts.com/classical-charts/ (60%+ classical content) as is the entire top 40 Specialist Classical Albums (100% classical content). Previously, only the top 20 Classical Artist Albums was available (by subscription) but unfortunately, Hayley isn't in the top 40 either at the moment. Archives for 2009 and 2010 are currently available too. This is exciting news for chart watchers, at last, the UK charts company enters the 21st Century! Cheers, Dave
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Apr 11, 2010 16:21:14 GMT
... as is the entire top 40 Specialist Classical Albums (100% classical content). As a follow-up to this story, I heard a discussion with Paul Gambaccini about the new BBC Radio 3 Specialist Classical Chart show on Radio 4 last Friday, which includes some talk about UK classical chart eligibility, classical crossover and other things. The interview can be heard for another 5 days at: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00rrc1r (14 minutes into the programme) or you can download my recording of it from here (.mp3-128kbps-6MB-6.5 minutes) Paul Gambaccini claims that Andre Rieu's orchestral Viennese Waltzes CD, which is top of all the classical charts, isn't "true" classical music, that it's "classical crossover", or "middle of the road" as he says it used to be called. I think that's a bold statement to make, even for said Mr. Gambaccini, and I don't think I agree with him on this occasion (though I did over his ejection of "Bond" from the Classic FM chart all those years ago). Dave
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Post by nicola on Apr 12, 2010 22:07:14 GMT
Well, it is "crossover" but it's not "classical crossover". It's crossover as far as the technical term goes, that is, it's classical music that achieved massive, popular success, but it's not crossover in the sense that it's pop.
I would never class André Rieu as CC, not according to my understanding of the genre, at least.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Apr 13, 2010 0:41:18 GMT
I wouldn't call it "crossover" at all, popular classical music is what I'd call it. I just don't understand why Gambaccini seems to be suggesting that popular Viennese Waltzes, played as they should be by a classical orchestra, shouldn't qualify for the specialist classical chart.
That seems to be an elitist attitude to something that The Three Tenors did - and I haven't seen anyone suggest that their music isn't classical, in its truest sense. Popular - and classical, like Andre Rieu. Some might call it technically crossover but if it is, there is an overlap because it's also truly classical, IMO (and therefore deserves to be in all the classical charts, where it is).
Dave
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Post by nicola on Apr 13, 2010 7:59:56 GMT
The Three Tenors were also crossover. Andre Rieu is crossover. The term "crossover" relates to the act of a normally obscure or specialist type of product (in this case "classical") and "crossing over" to popular appeal. This is no reflection of the type of "classical". In my opinion, The Three Tenors and Andre Rieu are both "pure" classical. It just so happens that both "crossed over" into popular appeal.
If Gambacinni simply said that Rieu was crossover, I would agree with his point. But he says it's not "pure classical". My conclusion from that is the same as yours. He is turning his nose up to it because it's so successful.
The terms "crossover" and "classical crossover" are two completely different things, and is often confused. Actually, Gambaccini raised an interesting point to say that if classical crossover were simply called "Easy Listening" we wouldn't have all this confusion. It's because the classical crossover genre derived from real classical acts "crossing over" that we have the word "crossover" in the name. The word 'crossover' in the name doesn't actually have the original meaning, as classical crossover artists are not "crossing over" from anywhere - they are already pop to begin with!
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Post by Richard on Apr 13, 2010 8:45:12 GMT
Hello folks! I've heard some of Andre Rieu's music and I definitely wouldn't call him a true classical artist. He is clearly trying to make classical music appeal to pop music lovers, and his style is far too brash for my liking. It reminds me of the 'Hooked on Classics' recordings by the LSO, and they were terrible! Richard
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Post by nicola on Apr 13, 2010 9:22:25 GMT
Interesting, Richard. Where would you put artists like Ludovido Einaudi? I tend to put such artists under "contemporary".
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Post by Richard on Apr 13, 2010 9:27:33 GMT
Hello Nicola! I wouldn't want to put Einaudi anywhere. His music goes on and on and he never develops his themes. Richard :zz:
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Apr 13, 2010 10:32:29 GMT
Hi Nicola and Richard,
Well it's no wonder that the music buying public is confused, because the music industry itself is confused! The UK and the US seem to have gone in opposite directions this year, with the UK splitting its classical charts into the one that includes classical crossover (classical), and another (specialist classical) that tries to exclude classical crossover, but includes Andre Rieu.
In the US, they seem to have done the opposite, getting rid of their old classical chart (that excluded classical crossover) and renaming their classical crossover chart as "classical", which unlike the UK, includes Il Divo and Andrea Bocelli's pop albums like "Amore", which even his official website lists as a "pop" album.
I don't think the confusion is going anywhere anytime soon, though it's good that all these charts are at last available free of charge to the general public.
Dave
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Post by larryhauck on Apr 13, 2010 12:16:35 GMT
The Three Tenors were also crossover. Andre Rieu is crossover. The term "crossover" relates to the act of a normally obscure or specialist type of product (in this case "classical") and "crossing over" to popular appeal. This is no reflection of the type of "classical". In my opinion, The Three Tenors and Andre Rieu are both "pure" classical. It just so happens that both "crossed over" into popular appeal. If Gambacinni simply said that Rieu was crossover, I would agree with his point. But he says it's not "pure classical". My conclusion from that is the same as yours. He is turning his nose up to it because it's so successful. The terms "crossover" and "classical crossover" are two completely different things, and is often confused. Actually, Gambaccini raised an interesting point to say that if classical crossover were simply called "Easy Listening" we wouldn't have all this confusion. It's because the classical crossover genre derived from real classical acts "crossing over" that we have the word "crossover" in the name. The word 'crossover' in the name doesn't actually have the original meaning, as classical crossover artists are not "crossing over" from anywhere - they are already pop to begin with! Hi Nicola You gotta love Andre Rieu and his orchestra they are so good and they look like they're having fun. Larry
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Post by nicola on Apr 13, 2010 12:57:53 GMT
Dave,
I think the classical market in America is particularly struggling - I can see why they would want (and need) to include crossover to give the genre more exposure. There's no need for this in the UK, as although classical doesn't sell near as much as crossover, it's still a sustainable and definite market here, and many people know the difference. America is too out in the open to pin individual markets. It's not called the hardest market to break for nothing! XD
Richard, whilst I understand and agree with your opinion, you didn't really answer my question! XD XD
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Post by Richard on Apr 13, 2010 14:08:57 GMT
Hello Nicola! I agree with you that Einaudi's music is contemporary rather than classical, but the only composer I really like in that field is Karl Jenkins. Richard
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Post by mihizawi on Apr 13, 2010 15:22:34 GMT
Hmm... Ok, with Ludovico Einaudi and "contemporary music" once again I think you are being too restrictive with the term "classical". As far as I think I understand the term, "Contemporary music" is widely accepted as a subgenre or submovement inside Classical music, and it is not excluded from the repertoire of pure classical concerts, even though, in many cases it is SO different from Mozart or Bach (and probably less liked by most of the classical audience).
Ok, I admit that the first things you think of when you use the term "Classical music", are the movements of Baroque, Classicism and Romanticism, which are of course the most relevant in that big genre that is Classical. But it is widely accepted that Classical music also covers music both before (Medieval and Renaissance) and after those movements.
If you say Contemporary music is not classical, does that mean that Classical music is restricted to the pieces written in the past? If so, when is the end of Classical music? Romanticism? And what about the impressionist musicians, like Debussy, Ravel or Albéniz? Are they classical composers or not?
Michal
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Post by nicola on Apr 13, 2010 16:40:59 GMT
Michal, I meant 'contemporary' as in the sub genre in classical.
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Post by mihizawi on Apr 13, 2010 16:47:38 GMT
Ok, yes, I knew, It was rather Richard's post that made me comment that.
Michal
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