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Post by fusilier23 on Nov 14, 2006 11:52:58 GMT
Katherine's got a ways to go before she can actualy make it on the operatic stage, but that's ok, she has probably at least three years to go before any opera company would even consider her. As for the joke, I agree, it's not very funny, and this is from the king of old jokes and puns that make others groan.
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Post by postscript on Nov 14, 2006 11:59:23 GMT
Hi Nicola, I have also heard the penguin joke before; quite recently too. I guess it is doing the rounds at the moment. Perhaps Katherine should stick to singing and leave the jokes to the comedians... but they don't make me laugh either! Glad everything worked out for you. Roger Yes, the good comedian is hard to find BUT when found, somehow simply repeating the joke brings it all back and is just as funny the second or third time round, within a reasonable space of time. This was intended as a quick response but... How about a thread, 'what makes you laugh?' Peter S.
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Post by nicola on Nov 14, 2006 12:37:59 GMT
Well, a lot of the audience laughed at the joke. At the beginning of the concert she asked for the audience to be lighted up so she could look around. She looked around and said 'Okay, that's fine, I was just checking if anyone was wearing the same dress as me.' That one got a few chuckles and applause too. Not from me, but still. I thought it was cute. It's lovely to hear her speaking voice too, it's as lovely as her singing voice. Judging from what I heard, I don't think she will ever be considered. I'm no opera buff and I wasn't impressed (by her operatic ability), so what will an opera buff think when she auditions? Unless she learns to breathe, that is. But she has had formal training at the Royal Academy of Music and I'm sure she's had vocal coaches for the past three years - so can she ever learn? I don't know.
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Post by nicola on Nov 14, 2006 13:50:49 GMT
Here is the photo. Lol. Katherine was going through us to quickly I didn't really have a clue as to what was going on. I think at this moment in time I was vaguely thinking 'Ah... wha? pho- wha? yea?' kind of thing. Also, our eyes came up completely red, so if our eyes look weird it's because I've edited the eyes.
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Post by grant on Nov 14, 2006 20:43:54 GMT
Great picture Nicola! You both look really cosy Grant
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Steve H
Global Moderator
HWI Management Team / Official Site Photographer & Videographer
Posts: 1,756
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Post by Steve H on Nov 14, 2006 20:55:28 GMT
Well done Nicola, I am glad you managed to get to meet Katherine, and thank you for your frank review of the All Angels album. Unfortunately all my local sources have sold out, so as yet I have not listened to it. I did not mean to make you feel bad about the Angelis review i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif, I appreciated your honesty. I expect you are still on cloud nine after last night, and you have a great picture to remember it by. Take Care Steve H
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Joe
Administrator
Supporting Hayley since 2003!
Posts: 6,699
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Post by Joe on Nov 15, 2006 3:35:19 GMT
Hi Nic I really liked this thread...right from your first post! Your report of the concert was excellent...and what a lovely photo Best wishes to you Joe
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Post by Jeff on Nov 16, 2006 10:02:03 GMT
Hi Nicola, I have also noticed that she fails to hold on to notes. Roger Yes, I've noticed this as well, particularly in her (english) version of "One Fine Day" where she holds the top note for barely a couple of seconds. So the climax of the whole aria is diminished, like a magnificent mountain with the summit cut off ! I'm also with Richard when he says her voice is too low. For a woman it sounds unnatural to me. Just as unnatural in its own way as our Japanese friend at Cadogan Hall ! That's another CD I won't be buying !
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Post by gerrit on Dec 21, 2006 21:18:11 GMT
Hi Nicola, As promised in the Estephany thread, I wold be replying to you on the Katherine sub-board. The main reason why I suggested you would be less enthusiastic about Katherine than I am are the comments you made in the Serenade thread on this sub-board (especially that you do not seem to like any song on Living A Dream) and on the thread about Odyssey with the poll Was Odyyssey disappointing (that last sentence of your post in that thread ...) Don't take this as an attempt to start up a serious discussion, by the way. People can forever argue about singers they like or dislike ..... Gerrit
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Post by nicola on Dec 22, 2006 10:38:46 GMT
Hello Gerrit, You may find that no matter how much I like an artist, I always think there is an element in their material, performance or vocal ability that can be improved. Some more than others. I don't think any artist is perfect. If they were, well, they would be the only artist I would need to listen to. I am as critical of Hayley as I am of Katherine, but that doesn't mean I don't like them. Far from it, at least I care enough about them to have all of their albums and take the time to listen to them all. If I didn't like them, like I don't like, say, Beyonce, I wouldn't even bother paying money to a) go to their concerts b) to listen to their material. I don't own one thing by Beyonce, because I know I don't like at all, therefore, will not give her the time of day. Hope that makes sense. I know you didn't want a serious discussion out of it, just wanted to explain why I say negative things about artists I like. I don't think it's useful to anyone when you just say 'OMG THEY ARE PERFECT!' I do not believe that any artist reaches perfection. They are always growing with new experiences. I know people disagree, but that's just the way I look at it. Hope that explains all. I would never argue with someone, either, if they simply don't like an artist. That's that. It can't be changed. I can't imagine anyone talking me into Mariah Carey, my mind is already made up, and I imagine that's the same with anybody. (there are exceptions, of course, when you don't know that artist too well in question).
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Post by grant on Dec 22, 2006 13:17:53 GMT
Hello Gerrit, Hope that makes sense. I know you didn't want a serious discussion out of it, just wanted to explain why I say negative things about artists I like. I don't think it's useful to anyone when you just say 'OMG THEY ARE PERFECT!' I do not believe that any artist reaches perfection. They are always growing with new experiences. I know people disagree, but that's just the way I look at it. Hope that explains all. You certainly talk a lot of sense Nicola and I agree with what you say. For me Hayley is "perfection" and by that I mean she is 'perfect' at a particular point in time. If Hayley (or anyone else for that matter) was perfect, there would be no scope for improvement, but she is improving and developing her skills on an almost daily basis. Your posts are always interesting and I always look forward to reading your views, even though I don't always agree. Happy Christmas Grant
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Post by roger on Dec 22, 2006 14:10:02 GMT
Hi Nicola, I can only say that Hayley's voice is as close to perfection as I have ever heard. That is not to say it is absolutely perfect but I cannot imagine finding anything better. Having said that, I believe her voice in another year or two will prove me wrong! To get back on topic, I would say that Katherine's voice, although wonderful and lovely, is far from perfect. Her apparent inability to hold on to a note for the requisite time (especially at the end of a verse) really irritates me. Roger
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Post by nicola on Dec 22, 2006 14:57:08 GMT
Hello Roger,
Thanks for your thoughts. I think the voice is just one aspect of an artist. Indeed, Hayley is pitch perfect, so she always gives a perfect technical performance, but there are other elements to this such as interpretation, emotion and performance. Hayley is not perfect as an artist (for me). And that's absolutely fine by me, I don't want her to peak early when she obviously has so much to give. I totally agree with: 'Having said that, I believe her voice in another year or two will prove me wrong! ' Her performance between Pure and Odyssey is astounding! Such difference.
But yes, back to the topic at hand. The main drawback with Katherine's breath control is that her arias become an anticlimax instead of a climax. Don't know if I said this before but Nessun Dorma is all about that last note, and if you hold it for merely two seconds the whole thing has just been ruined. That's how I feel anyway. Katherine's inability to hold such climatic notes leaves a lot to be desired in her live performances. I remember watching Katherine at the time and remember longing for Sarah Brightman, who can hold notes for an extraoridinary amount of time. I'm not sure that I will see Katherine live again, I'll stick to her CDs and money is better spent on Hayley concerts, who is even better live than she is on CDs.
I remember at St. James Church when she sung 'Never Saw Blue'; I was spellbound.
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Post by gerrit on Dec 22, 2006 20:23:12 GMT
Hi Nicola, Personally I can concur with what you say about artists being (im)perfect. I too believe that when it comes to being pitch perfect, Hayley has a definite edge on Katherine. But (and again that's only how I experience it), I feel that Katherine's voice is more emotive. On Pure, there were two songs that I played repeatedly because of the impact they had on me, Benedictus and Heaven. The rest of the songs I like very much (apart form Wuthering Heights). On Odyssey, there hasn't been any song that prompted me to play it repeatedly. My attention was never "arrested" when I played that CD. On Living a Dream, Katherine's previous album, there were two songs that arrested me - L'amore sei tu and Do not stand at my grave and weep (which I find the stand-out song on that album). I like every other song on that abum. Can't comment about Serenade as I have only just ordered it. As to Yulia, there were 4 songs on her first album "Into The West" that arrested me: The title song, Angel, the Maori medley and Softly whispering I love you. I found her second album Montage a bit disappointing though. Needless to say, that actually out of all the albums I mentioned, I rate "Into The West" the highest. Two "arresting" songs on the one album (while you also enjoy the rest) makes me classify the album as "outstanding" - but with 4 "arresting" songs ? Until I received "Into The West" (as a present from Yulia's record company!) I had never had that experience before. The most I ever came to was two. Ahh well, again, this is just personal taste . Gerrit P.S. Talking about Sarah Brightman, apparently she will take part in the second series of Just The Two Of Us, the contest that was won by Russell Watson this year. Russell was going to participate again, but had to pull out on doctors advice. The new series will star on BBC 1 on January 2, 2007.
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Post by postscript on Dec 27, 2006 15:37:59 GMT
Hi Nicola, I can only say that Hayley's voice is as close to perfection as I have ever heard. That is not to say it is absolutely perfect but I cannot imagine finding anything better. Having said that, I believe her voice in another year or two will prove me wrong! To get back on topic, I would say that Katherine's voice, although wonderful and lovely, is far from perfect. Her apparent inability to hold on to a note for the requisite time (especially at the end of a verse) really irritates me. Roger You raise an interesting point here, Roger. Can perfection be too perfect? Over the Christmas period I had discussion with one friend, who is a fan of Katherine Jenkins. Despite pointing out some of her 'failings' (which have been discussed elsewhere on this Board and of which my friend was aware for herself) my friend preferred the characteristics of 'human failings' more than the perfection of pure tone, which she felt lacked the 'character' that turned objective pureness into subjective individualism. Another KJ fan friend seemed to explain his preference because KJ was formerly a teacher, as if this fact gave an authority to her performance regardless. He was unconvinced that he might attribute an 'authority' in the theory but being able to implement the theory in actual rendition might be something quite different. Interestingly, KJ was on Parkinson just before Christmas and in that interview she discussed her intentions (a point I raise in the (at this time) yet to be posted 'Dessert' section of 'Hayley At Harrogate') regarding opera. At 26 she felt she would not be ready to try opera before she was thirty because of the continuing development of her voice and general stature. Other aspects relating to Hayley (not on the programme but why I raise it in the other post) I will leave for then. In passing, CC once said she hoped to perform at 'La Scala' yet has seemed singularly impatient, almost uncaring, about what she is ready to sing and how she does(n't) look after her voice. Maybe this is why she is not currently singing, to rest and try and repair the damage for the later longer term? Only at the tale end did I catch the TV programme on the launching of 'Phantom' and its diverse problems, not least of which had been the 'great debate' about Sarah Brightman 's (and Michael Crawford's) appropriateness for their roles. Yet, which might be due to the inevitability of 'being the first', can anyone really acccept as 'good as', let alone 'better than' either of them in those roles? I have cause to be supportive of Sarah, as to me she is a 'local' girl. In fact, just before Christmas, I bumped into her mother in the local supermarket and congratulated her on having Sarah in the top 10 again and wished her 'Happy Christmas'. Certainly (I forget which it is) there is a song on Sarah's latest CD that encourages me to buy it but generally speaking, I enjoy hearing Sarah (and love 'The Phantom') but am not encouraged to follow her further. In fact, my whole musical awakening derives from the Hayley experience. Until now, I have not so much as followed the artist as the music. In my younger days when I was perhaps as 'into' recording as Dave clearly is today (days of recording amateur stage productions, sound effects, using Wearite decks in Vortexions and Ferrographs with 10.5" spools of tape at 7.5" and 15" speeds and ribbon micnrophones etc--when all this was not the museum pieces they are now) I borrowed from the Long Playing Record Library and created my own music library of whole operas, shows, symphonies and concertos etc, preferring my music 'in contexr' not as aria or duet extracts. The artists were largely secondary to the collective whole as conductor's or director's interpretaitons of the score. It was CC and then Hayley that drew me into the 'singer and not the song' context but only with Hayley could I accept her singing anything, as I could not (cannot) with any other singer. The relevance of this digression is ask the question: 'What is it that determines preference?' I wonder if it is akin to Sherlock Holmes' critisism of Dr Watson, 'You have seen but you have not observed?' Is it that too many hear but do not take note (no pun intended!). To what extent is the market driven through the subjective ears of the listener and dependent upon their own awakenings; driven by an ignorant desire to 'be as the world seems to be'; or driven by external commercial concepts of 'ringing the changes'? Is 'fashion' an audience statement of desire, or a hyped exaggeration to meet an accountant's determined return within a defined period of accountancy, not the development time needed for the commodity (the singer)? Another conversation I had over Christmas was with Mathais' mother. He is the younger brother of Chris and Gabriel Garrick. Usually regarded as a 'sparks' he plays keyboard for his own band and this Christmas introduced his girlfriend, his singer, who is also a music teacher. They are about to burn their first CD (so maybe I'll take the opportunity to follow other's examples here and introduce a new thread on that when it is ready). Unfortunately it is jazz and rock biased so unlikey to appeal to me at least! It is a disappointment to me that with so much talent in this side of the family it is in a genre with which I am singularly unappreciative! As Mathias' mother remarked (herself a music teacher of clarinet and piano), his Sarah 'has a very fine voice', what ever good that will do! The problem is not the ability but gaining the exposure without the hype. Last month The Times described Chris (Garrick, her eldest son) as "perhaps the most exciting jazz violinist in the world today". That's pure hype!' She said. ' Who's heard all the appropriate violinists availabe to be able to make that statement? Chris will play to an audience of 25 in the back room of a pub, yet hold an entire concert hall of 500+ on the edge of their seats. His band doesn't have music. They just get on stage, look at one another and one of them starts a tune or theme. With nothing more than a nod and a wink they'll chop and change the lead and harmonies between them, entirely as the mood takes them. They manage themselves and play because they can't 'not' play! That is muscianship, built upon maturity and extensive experience.' So, returning to the opening remark. In a short period an extraordianry diversity of opinion and interchange with different people. I shall have to ensure Susan receives a whole set of Hayley as she declined to comment about Hayley as she hadn 't heard her sufficiently! The question is the extent of individual awareness and how can one open opportunities further? Is it simply down to the individual's own awakening? As I observed in the 'Hayley at Harrogate' report, it seems I am becoming increasingly dissatisfied with anything that is not at least 100%. Whether or not dissatisfaction with the norm is a price I am prepared to pay.it is too late to ask. The die is cast! Peter S.
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