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Post by Nordly on Jun 19, 2008 0:54:21 GMT
Haydn is strictly classical. Hayley is in between different genres, and has been hailed as classical-crossover, classical-ite, and popera to name a few. The fact that there are songs that are more popular on her albums gives reason for something like Odyssey to do better than Haydn's Quartet No. 4 from Opus 92 (I think that's the numbers); Odyssey has something for everyone (as do all of Hayley's albums, Odyssey is just an example) while Haydn doesn't.
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Post by milewalker on Jun 19, 2008 1:33:50 GMT
Haydn is strictly classical. Hayley is in between different genres, and has been hailed as classical-crossover, classical-ite, and popera to name a few. The fact that there are songs that are more popular on her albums gives reason for something like Odyssey to do better than Haydn's Quartet No. 4 from Opus 92 (I think that's the numbers); Odyssey has something for everyone (as do all of Hayley's albums, Odyssey is just an example) while Haydn doesn't. As I said, I am not trying to rain on your parade Northern_Lights The Haydn thing was just a lame attempt at being clever....I picked on classical music because that is the likely place - at least at my local library - where it would end up. right next to Haydn.... Seriously though if your purpose is to try to get someone who already has heard of Hayley to further investigate her music, (or getting someone who already has Pure to buy Celtic Treasure) getting a copy into a library might be one good way to do it. I dont think that very many people will be introduced to her this way however.... Jon Jon
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Post by roger on Jun 19, 2008 8:14:53 GMT
Despite the fact that most libraries in the US have a fairly extensive collection of classical material on hand, this has, insofar as I can tell, done very little to promote classical music in general. Why would Hayley would fare any better than Haydn? Hi Jon, Your question reminds me of something I meant to say in my initial response to Jenny. In two weeks from now, Hayley will appear in Washington and the event will be subsequently broadcast on PBS which, hopefully, will introduce her to many viewers and generate some interest. If libraries stock her CDs at that time, they may prove more popular than they would have been up to now. Jenny's suggestion is therefore perfectly timed. Haydn is unlikely to benefit in this way because he is unable to go to Washington! Roger
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Post by Nordly on Jun 19, 2008 11:56:21 GMT
Haydn is strictly classical. Hayley is in between different genres, and has been hailed as classical-crossover, classical-ite, and popera to name a few. The fact that there are songs that are more popular on her albums gives reason for something like Odyssey to do better than Haydn's Quartet No. 4 from Opus 92 (I think that's the numbers); Odyssey has something for everyone (as do all of Hayley's albums, Odyssey is just an example) while Haydn doesn't. As I said, I am not trying to rain on your parade Northern_Lights The Haydn thing was just a lame attempt at being clever....I picked on classical music because that is the likely place - at least at my local library - where it would end up. right next to Haydn.... Seriously though if your purpose is to try to get someone who already has heard of Hayley to further investigate her music, (or getting someone who already has Pure to buy Celtic Treasure) getting a copy into a library might be one good way to do it. I dont think that very many people will be introduced to her this way however.... Jon Jon Eventually Hayley would be lost, maybe not next to Haydn because her last name starts with W not H, but my library has a list of new albums, and if Hayley's name is on this list, then some people may check it out. Also, she would probably be in the same catagory as Sissel, whose Into Paradise has been checked out multiple times; maybe one of Hayley's would be to. That's the easy part. The hard part is convincing my library to get at least one of Hayley's albums. Hmm, maybe I could say, "Sissel's 'Into Paradise' shows a more mature version of her singing. Why don't we put something in that sounds like a younger Sissel? I know just the singer- Hayley Westenra!" Prehaps it will work, but maybe not ~NL
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Post by milewalker on Jun 19, 2008 17:56:55 GMT
Haydn is unlikely to benefit in this way because he is unable to go to Washington! Roger I dunno Roger. Maybe he will be there in sprit - or maybe we just wont see him because he is Haydn..... Thanks for your Handeling of such a delicate matter..... Jon
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Post by roger on Jun 19, 2008 22:04:59 GMT
The hard part is convincing my library to get at least one of Hayley's albums. Hmm, maybe I could say, "Sissel's 'Into Paradise' shows a more mature version of her singing. Why don't we put something in that sounds like a younger Sissel? I know just the singer- Hayley Westenra!" Prehaps it will work, but maybe not ~NL Hi Northern Lights, You're right that there are no guarantees but, if you are willing to try, it would cost you nothing but a little time. If it should work, you will have started another ball rolling and we would all be grateful for that. More importantly, so would Hayley. Jon, are we talking of Haydn or Handel? You keep Chopin and changin' but that's okay - I'll make a Liszt! Roger
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Post by stuartj on Jun 20, 2008 7:12:07 GMT
...Hayley shouldn't attempt to go too far popish, it is just not her. ... But it is her! Let's face it, she was nothing short of amazing with "Groovy Kind of Love" which is as popish as it gets. Bottom line is: Hayley's versatility as a singer makes a mockery of our shoulds and shouldn'ts. Steve, as Jon mentioned I did have something else in mind when I mentioned that Hayley shouldn't go too popish. I didn't make myself clear, but with my references to Mick Jagger etc, and use of the word "popish" I had a manner of presentation in mind rather than a type of song. I suspect that we are really quite in agreement here. I believe she could do a wide range of songs - an album of pop classics perhaps (though later in her career perhaps). What I meant was that she should resist any pressure to develop a more raunchy "Britney Spears" type presentation. It probably goes without saying, anyway, that she won't do anything like that, but the type of image she portrays does differ. Compare her "party mode" image at the Welsh Anthem show to her Church mode image at her first Hour of Power Performance", and then there is her manner and demeanour singing the national anthem at the New Zealand memorial service - and her rapport with the crowd at Hayley's Kiwi Celli... All of these were totally appropriate to the occasion, which shows great versatility in her ability to adapt to different circmustances too. Off the top of my head I can think of few other singers so versatile in this respect. Great as this is it sometimes leaves Hayley without a clearly defined image, and sometimes to appreciate her fully you need to see her in different circumstances. I have described her as "Easy Listening" (or Classical-Lite), but I agree that her versatility means this is not the full story. Perhaps she needs to be promoted more as immensely versatile, somehow. I see that she is being promoted as a "classical superstar" and on the New Zealand Japanese emabassy site as "New Zealand's Premiere Classical Singer" (I think I can see why a certain other famous New Zealand singer who likes to be Numero 1 at everything may be hopping mad about such discriptions, but I have no sympathy with her while she remains so ungracious.) And it's difficult to know what else to call her... unless someone here has some great idea. A list of classic pop songs I think Hayley could sing, would include: Elanor Rigby Angie (Rolling Stones) The Ballad of Lucy Jordan A Whiter Shade of Pale Brandy The Rose Long Black Veil From Boulder to Birmingham Help Me Make it Through the Night Will the Circle be Unbroken And even some of Buffy St Marie's folk songs. I'm not saying that all the above are appropriate, but that I believe she could do them all more than adequately. Her cracking the US market may just happen anyway, if everyone is patient. I came across this in the news. It's from an American site reviewing the American show "So You Think You Can Dance". I don't know much about it, but one of the prominent couples used Hayley's Dark Waltz as the music they danced to. This has been mentioned on a number of sites and this reviewer described it thus: "...Next was blonde school teacher Susie partnering with sweet faced Marquis. They danced a smooth waltz to some truly beautiful music ("Dark Waltz" by Hayley Westenra),..." www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2008/06/13/so_you_think_you_can_dance_jaime_aamp_raI wonder if this sort of thing may not be worth more than formal promotion. I fixed the link. Richard
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Post by milewalker on Jun 20, 2008 14:31:48 GMT
Hi Stuart and Steve,
That was indeed how I read your post Stuart This being said, I was trying to bring out the possibility of a third option - a form of music more "popish" than Groovy Kind of Love, but not venturing into the territory occupied by Britney et al. (For the record incidentally, I own nothing by Britney, though my wife (my pop reality check) likes her to some extent.)) Did anyone but me notice that the American version of Wuthering Heights was "rocked up" somewhat? If this is the case, it does suggest that someone actually did have a clue - though the effort was unsupported by any of her actual marketing here.
When I think about this issue, I keep coming back to Groban - and also to an extent Brightman. Both singers are clearly crossover from POV of the US - but though there is considerable overlap between them and Hayley, there are also very clear diferences. It isnt that Groban merely does pop music - but his pop choices have a little bit of an edge to them. Brightman is quite capable of "sexiing up" a number - though in a manner much different than Britney for two reasons. (She can actually sing very well, and the target audience is quite a bit older). However, Brightman herself may be fading into legacy.....
In Hayley's case. some kind of dabbling into country and western seems possible enough to support a little speculation. The interesting thing about C and W is that it contains some elements of almost everything. It is sometimes religious, sometimes a little "rocky" , and it also supports an act like Julianna Hough (a beautiful young woman who is a much better dancer than a singer - with all that entails in her act.) Some artists are all of these things at different times.
The "bottom line" of all of this is that there is almost always a middle ground if you care to search for it.
Finally, such things as Hayley's song being played on "So You Think You can Dance" is another phenomenom which we might call "spillover" - it is where an artist attains enough popularity elsewhere that it begins to spill over into the market in question. This is actually the way it often works - Sissel being a prime example - but it takes a long time to develop. This being said, Sissell now does sell enough to make occasional brief low level tours in the US.
Jon
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Post by stuartj on Jun 21, 2008 7:22:23 GMT
Interesting post Jon. I may comment more about it later, but I must soon depart to watch the rugby at a friend's place. (Not that I think the rugby is more important than Hayley's cracking the US market, you understand, but I can ponder Hayley's possible tactics while watching the English get thumped ) Briefly, the latest YouTube promo for the Capitol Fouth PBS thing does actually mention Hayley. (The first disappointingly didn't.) www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9bWSx2E524Stuart
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Post by scoobedoo on Jun 24, 2008 9:50:16 GMT
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Post by gra7890 on Jun 24, 2008 11:07:33 GMT
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Post by Richard on Jul 9, 2008 14:53:30 GMT
This post has been moved from the Washington, 4th July thread. I would like to take a moment to reply to what has already been said about Hayley appearing in the U.S. People in America have very short term memories when it comes to any singer, There are so many young singers out there that unless someone, like Hayley, presents herself constantly the public will forget.
As much as I hate to use her name, Charlotte Church in her first few years made several concert DVDs and backed them up with on or two tours in America ever year for several years. She appeared in both large and small venues and sold out consistently. Her album sales where tremendous. Then she stopped coming and now she is known as "Charlotte WHO?".
For some reason Hayley's management team seems to not want her to do that kind of thing in the U.S. Her last tours have been as part of another group (i.e. Celtic Woman).She needs to make another solo concert DVD, perhaps for PBS and then start touring America SOLO for a couple of years, She makes tours all the time in Japan and the UK, but she could do even better here, Maybe I am out of place making this suggestion, but it is what I feel is the right thing for her to do. I know it is expensive, but consider the end results. Just look at what happened to her sales right after the July 4th appearance.
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Post by milewalker on Jul 9, 2008 17:25:17 GMT
Heh - a lot of roads seem to lead back to here dont they Richard? I will be brief Hi John Charlotte didnt tour until spring 2000. By then she already had two huge releases in America and had sold well over 2 million CD's here. By contrast Hayley's numbers for her entire career are so modest here that it is difficult to get hard numbers for what they actually are. I would guess that they are around 100,000 cumulatively. It is very difficult to orchestrate a tour unless a fairly high profile is already there. Charlotte had one. Hayley did/does not. It is also as you attest, expensive. Therein lies another problem because they have already spent a lot of money here and have accomplised relatively little. Frankly I think that Hayley's previous misadventures in America only served to put a cash squeeze on her, which is quite possibly still affecting the way she goes about other aspects of her career. Unless and until something happens to cause a change, I suspect that both Hayley and Decca would be unwilling to do anything in the US which involved a risk - especially since any time spent here is time spent away from nurturing her other markets, where she does have such a profile. Jon
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Post by petertong on Jul 9, 2008 18:54:17 GMT
Personally I think Hayley should try a bunch of different music to see what folks like here I personally would love it if she would sing a worship song (as I do believe Hayley is a Christian) at a large church here as I really think her voice is perfect for that as well as the classical stuff. She has kind of taken a step closer to that with songs like Abide in Me and so she might as well step over to see what the results are on some sunday Especially if that is who she is... is it risky... yes but if it is her then why not... my impression is that she has always been her own person Then again this might not be Hayley in which case she should stay away. I thought the last time she did that the results were pretty good here at least though Peter
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Post by milewalker on Jul 9, 2008 21:24:31 GMT
Personally I think Hayley should try a bunch of different music to see what folks like here I personally would love it if she would sing a worship song (as I do believe Hayley is a Christian) at a large church here as I really think her voice is perfect for that as well as the classical stuff. She has kind of taken a step closer to that with songs like Abide in Me and so she might as well step over to see what the results are on some sunday Especially if that is who she is... is it risky... yes but if it is her then why not... my impression is that she has always been her own person Then again this might not be Hayley in which case she should stay away. I thought the last time she did that the results were pretty good here at least though Peter Hayley has already done 2 appearances on the Hour of Power as well as a CBS Sunday morning show. Every album she has released in the US has contained at least 2 piece of religious music. There is no problem with religious songs per se - but I fail to see how this would help her much since it hasnt seemed to have done much for her in the past Jon
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